Want To Buy: fuel bladder

[Cheechako]

That's an awful lot of extra fuel on a 40 footer...? and about what, 1500 lbs of weight?

[Rocketman]

Thanks for the helpful input. I do realize that 200 gallons maybe a little over kill, so now I am concidering maybe an extra 100 gallons instead. I still like the idea of a 200gallon bladder so I could add what ever I wanted. I plan to secure the bladder down in the rear cabin as close the the sole as possible.

I have had this much wieght on the boat in the form of extra people. We once took 8 big guys and all of there dive gear, and provisions for a week trip all setting in the rear cockpit, the boat seemed to handle the extra wieght fine, however we did not see more than 4ft sea's.

[mlydon]

I have a 200 gal

[downunder]

A extra 200 L would surely be enough.

[ka4wja]

Rocketman,
As others have pointed out to you, adding that much more fuel on-board a 40' sailboat isn't something to take lightly....even an extra 100 gallons is way more trouble than you probably realize!!!
Add in the issues of filling, pumping, plumbing, filtering, draining, etc. with the immense issue of trying to secure that much fuel....and you start to see there are many issues to overcome....
(and a 200 gallon fuel bladder...oh boy, would that be a pain!!!)

So, I'd like to offer you some real-world, experienced thoughts....
If you don't mind blunt (but honest) comments from someone who has crossed the Atlantic many times (the first being >30 years ago, well before GPS and 406 EPIRBS's, etc.....and the latest few being just a couple years ago), as well as dozens and dozens of other long, offshore passages, I have some helpful information for you...

Originally Posted by Rocketman

After talking to a few veterans of Atlantic crossings, I asked them what were ther primary concerns during the trip. Both told me fuel, water, rig failer, electricity, boat failer, rescue.

So, I asked about bringing extra fuel, and enough fuel to make the trip if something went wrong. Both thought it was a good idea. With 200 gallons of fuel, assuming the engine will run, would eliminate a lot of there concerns.

Your comments and views are welcome here. I like to hear your thoughts. I admit I am not experienced at ocean crossings and am always learning.

1) I think you should seriously widen your search for "veteran" Atlantic sailors to seek input from, as NONE of those 6 things you mentioned these two guys told you would be a major concern of mine!!


2) Just FYI, here are my top 3 priorities (not really "concerns", but "priorities"), when planning an Atlantic crossing:

a) When making a long offshore passage, especially short-handed as most of us are, the number one priority (after keeping the boat upright and afloat is usually adequate sleep/rest for me and my crew/family...
Sleep depravation is bad, and making sure that everything gets done right, everyday, forweeks on end, can be taxing to your "mental health"....so getting enough sleep/rest (along with healthy food and plenty of water), is usually something that I put at the top of my list....
And don't forget, that part of assuring enough sleep/rest is crew conditioning....being in both good physical shape and good mental shape BEFORE you leave port, is factor in being able to get enough rest/sleep while on passage.....
Don't get me wrong, I'm not in great physical shape (heck never have been!! , but I AM capable of doing what needs doing at sea and not being "burnt-out" / overly-stressed by it....


b) Secondarily to the above, I'd place vessel preparation next on my list....making any sailboat ready for days/weeks of 24/7 sailing in sometimes rough weather, is not an easy task.....and it still amazes me to hear/read of how many boats arrive in the Azores, EU, etc. (or the Caribbean on a west-bound passage) with damage....(not to mention the recently more common occurrences of vessels abandoned at sea...)
Yes, stuff does break unexpectedly, but remember that old saying Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance....
Learn it, Love it, Live it!!!


c) Weather....
Getting accurate weather forecasts, and/or watching/observing the weather and making your own forecasts, and/or being prepared for whatever weather conditions arise.....
(whatever weather data/forecasts you choose to use as your primary source, be sure to have a back-up!!!)




3) There's that old saying:
Keep the mast pointing UP, and keep the water on the OUTSIDE, and you will get there!!!!

Which basically means, remember the basics....and you'll get there....everything else is just luxury.....
And I do enjoy my luxuries, like eating frozen ice cream from my freezer in the middle of the Atlantic....making fresh water whenever I desire...having plenty of electrical power from solar, for whatever I need on-board....sleeping on clean sheets, on comfy mattresses, etc. etc...

Just reminding you that you don't need 200 extra gallons of diesel to make it across the Atlantic in plenty of luxury...




4) Yada, yada, yada.....
You know the list can go on and on....but that's not what you were asking about here....
You were looking for a fuel bladder after all!!!
So, what am I rambling on about all this other stuff for???

The answer is:
To show you that carrying a few jerry jugs of diesel is okay (or better yet, have adequate solar power so you don't need diesel for anything other than propulsion), but trying to add a couple hundred gallons of extra fuel (especially in a bladder tank!!!) is a bad idea.....

A couple jerry jugs of extra diesel (secured properly, NOT just lashed to the lifelines!), will allow you to:
a) extend your range under power, a bit...
b) use "clean fuel", should you develop an tank(s) issue....
c) transfer / use fuel from remote sources.....
These are mostly universally accepted as "normal" these days....but, remember it is a sailboat, not a trawler...



5) BTW, I carry 88 gals of diesel in two tanks (44 gals each), with about 78 gallons "useable", and I plan for a max fuel load of 70 gals....
On my most recent two Atlantic crossings, I did bring 15 extra gals along (3 jerry jugs), and never even came close to needing them....I used < 20 gals over the entire 3100 miles from S. Florida to the Azores (and most of that was the last 150-200 miles before making landfall in Horta, as we had NO wind and plenty of fuel!!!), and on my west-bound passage, I ended up motoring the last day into Lazaronte, Canary, in a dead calm / bathtub-flat sea, but used only a few gallons the rest of the way across to the USVI....



Rocketman, I really do hope this helps....

Fair winds..

John
s/v Annie Laurie

[hellosailor]

Rocketman, I'm thinking like HyLyte. 1500 pounds is a big gorilla in the room, and since it is the Atlantic and you may get tossed or rolled...Can you really restrain it adequately? Let alone balance the boat?

One bladder also means one puncture and you've now got 200 gallons of fuel loose in the boat. And if you don't use the fuel, how or where will you stow or dispose of it afterwards? As opposed to keeping the bladder in the stateroom?

If I wanted a one-shot, for fuel or water, I might look into something like securing a length of 8-12" PVC pipe on each side of the main cabin sole, and making those into internal tankage, centered and low in the boat. Cheap, durable, easy to work.

[HopCar]

If my math isn't too far off, he would need about 45 feet of 12" pipe to store 200 gallons. Of course that could be cut into smaller lengths.

Is PVC ok with diesel fuel?

You would need to get creative on tank fittings but I think 12" PVC is thick enough to drill and tap at least small holes. It's an interesting idea.

[hellosailor]

HopCar, he did mention downsizing to 100 gallons. And I'm not even running the numbers for that, I'm only suggesting "this is what may fit".

The only "corporate" mention I found online in a fast search was that PVC has "good to moderate" resistance to diesel fuel. Of course you can also buy 5-gallon cube-tainers and just lash 'em down. Or get 15-35 gallon food-grade drums often free from some food processors, who just use them once for shipping. Yes, I know someone who has been using some 15-gallon drums that way for a couple of years with no problem. (Various kinds of olives, pickles, and photo processing chemicals shipped in them.)