Lee shore and no steerage

[JPA Cate]

Anchored on a lee shore in 45 knots, once. Stayed at anchor till the expected wind shift came through. It was a long few hours in a basically deserted area, but with the shift, the motion calmed down pretty quickly. When I got to trusting it, I came off watch.

Should one do this, using a very long snubber helps. And an anchor you have learned to trust.

However, one could use the experience. If the steering had failed, we would not have put out a message on the radio. No need to when you are a long, long way from help. One would attack the problem in the morning, after a sleep and breakfast, and let one's subconscious mind work on it while asleep.

For people near major population areas, "help" can be pretty close, but it teaches you to rely on others to fix your problems. For us it has always been important to do the fixing ourselves.

Ann

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

For us it has always been important to do the fixing ourselves.

Ann

Ann,

I have great sympathy with this perspective. World cruisers need to learn to depend on themselves and give up the 'call 911' mindset. One learns this. It is a shore habit that needs breaking/modification.

However, bottom line, this is exactly the mistake that Uncontrollable Urge made. When their steering went out they had race boats right around them that offered an immediate tow. They turned it down, let those boats sail on and get out of useful range believing they could handle the problem. They were wrong and people died because of it.

So . . . . . you are broadly right . . . . . but not absolutely right . . . . it is situation-specific/dependant. . . . . it is a judgment call . . . . more experienced people like you will make better judgment calls . . . .but yea we are all human and make mistakes . . . . and re this topic we know people who have made this judgment wrong on both sides . . . it can be a tough one - full of stress and pride.

[taxwizz]

Didn't a Norwegian Cruises ship get blown ashore a few years ago?
I believe that her engine died in a storm near shore.

[nfbr]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This happened to me in the Long Island sound and I was getting ready to cross the path of the Port Jefferson to Connecticut ferry. I was on the Connecticut side with a very strong south wind. Having a great time. Sailing on a nice beam reach. It was beautiful. All day.

So all of a sudden I lose all of my steering. Nothing. This is a hydraulic steering system on a monohull that I had. No steering whatsoever. The wheel would just turn and turn and turn. No effect on the rudder.

Good as new! Continued on my way two days after the loss of steering.

I had exactly the same two weeks ago right in front of Statue of Liberty. Figured the Americans would arrest me for trying to steal their freedom or something. Luckily cats have 2 engines and there is an anchorage right behind.

[Doubleplay]

Originally Posted by Mattdewizard

After beating the capsize challenge to death I would like to propose a new challenge.
In the event of being caught on a Lee shore with no steerage, no premanufactured emergency tiller, how does one sail or motor to sea? The wind is 90 deg. to shore at 20 knots true.

There's always steerage even if the rudder gets stuck or cables snap unless you lose your rudder completely.
Depending on which direction it's stuck you can use the engine in forward or reverse to get out of danger.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Anchored on a lee shore in 45 knots, once. Stayed at anchor till the expected wind shift came through. It was a long few hours in a basically deserted area, but with the shift, the motion calmed down pretty quickly. When I got to trusting it, I came off watch.

Should one do this, using a very long snubber helps. And an anchor you have learned to trust.

However, one could use the experience. If the steering had failed, we would not have put out a message on the radio. No need to when you are a long, long way from help. One would attack the problem in the morning, after a sleep and breakfast, and let one's subconscious mind work on it while asleep.

For people near major population areas, "help" can be pretty close, but it teaches you to rely on others to fix your problems. For us it has always been important to do the fixing ourselves.

Ann

It also depends on the coast that is your Lee shore.. if help is at hand in the situation the OP suggests I would most definitely call for it.
By Lee shore I am assuming 2-3nm max offshore and that can be lethal along the Galician coast, not for nothing is it known as the Costa del Morte.. The same goes for sections of the W Portuguese coast where its either rocky cliffs or sandy shallows that extend 1-2km offshore in places with a predominant NW swell rarely below 1.5metre on a calm day.
There's a time for independence and a time for self preservation.
5-10nm offshore I'll happily play with bits of wood and string, but inshore it depends..

[Bill_Giles]

I can sail a dinghy without a rudder having practiced it. Not so sure about the yacht though.

Drop the anchor. You are now pointing away from the shore dead into wind. It is not a safe position if the anchor drags. Power up heading out to sea as you weigh anchor. Remove your spare anchor from its chain. Put the spare anchor warp and chain over the stern. Move the towed equipment side to side to effect steering.

Otherwise call for a tow.

[goboatingnow]

It all depends on the situation. Here in Greece help can be very far away and you can be damm close inshore by the time your anchor grabs. Personally i would start my engine and steer by drogues. It’s very effective. Always seek sea-room, land kills boats.

Round U.K. Ireland Lee shores are extremely bad places. There given the excellent rescue services I’d immediately issue a PAN PAN , nothing beats getting off a Lee shore then a Trent class lifeboat. !!

If help is available always always ask for its assistance. The RNLI would rather needlessly help 10 boats then miss one that then foundered.

In almost all cases I would issue a pan pan anyway so as to alert anyone that might help.

[rslifkin]

In my mind, it doesn't hurt to put in the call for help. You can always call it off if you manage to resolve the situation adequately before help arrives. But if I wasn't 100% confident that I could resolve the situation safely without assistance, I'd rather get something on the way. Depending on how far offshore the failure occurred, I might take a minute or 3 to assess the situation and determine what I could do before making the call. But waiting too long to call means the call is just going to be a "please come pick up the pieces".

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In my mind, it doesn't hurt to put in the call for help. You can always call it off if you manage to resolve the situation adequately before help arrives. But if I wasn't 100% confident that I could resolve the situation safely without assistance, I'd rather get something on the way. Depending on how far offshore the failure occurred, I might take a minute or 3 to assess the situation and determine what I could do before making the call. But waiting too long to call means the call is just going to be a "please come pick up the pieces".

Correct. Irrespective issue a pan pan and ask for help even if help might be far away. Let the rescue people then decide themselves how to help

[Salva]

Maybe towing a sea anchor with double lines, port and starboard? Read about it on an Australian webbsite. Could be interesting to try this in calm weather and working steering, just in case.

[paul2884]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Here on the W coast of Portugal let's assume it's been bitten off by Orca... I'd put out a Mayday.. float my dinghy and mount the outboard.
Just in case the lifeboat did not arrive in time.

Do Orca's like the taste of rubber dinghys? They do seem to have a taste for fibreglass and there isnt much protection in a dingy/life raft!!

[IolantheSF]

If your engine is running, and no sails are up or you don’t feel able to steer safely with sails in your situation, put it in reverse. The center of lateral pressure on your topsides being forward of the CLP on your keel will cause the bow to weathervane downwind. You will then back away from shore. When you reach a safe distance / depth, drop the anchor and set it properly with adequate scope. Get your anchor ball up. If appropriate, broadcast a “securité”. Make repairs, jury rig a rudder, or call for a tow.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by paul2884

Do Orca's like the taste of rubber dinghys? They do seem to have a taste for fibreglass and there isnt much protection in a dingy/life raft!!

They generally go away laughing their fins off once the rudders gone..

[merrydolphin]

I know that every cruising boat that I have owned (five) will self steer upwind. Jib in fairy hard and can steer with the main. It’s crude but once balanced out can go for long periods. 200kts is a pretty good wind speed for a good cruising boat. Waves aren’t too high so as to impede to any significances once good way is on. Have done this for hours with wheel / tiller free. You need to keep up good speed so not to sheet in too hard. As a sailing instructor for a large sailing school, most boat will do this. We have a 50 boat fleet of 30-55 ft boats. I don’t know of one that will not do this. I am referring to mono hulls. Some do better than others but they will all get the job done. We teach this in our classes to demonstrate how COE vs CLR effects the boats trim. To tack, get the boat moving well then quickly harden up the main and it should carry you through (depending on the boat) if not and you get into irons, push the boom out and that will kick the stern around. On a larger boat that may take a couple of people or rig a preventer like line to pull it out. Off wind is a different story. But up wind most mono’s will balance.