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GRIT · 21-07-2021, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by belizesailor

That reads like pretty good performance to me. Are you at anchor or in a marina? (can make a big difference).

A friend of mine runs the SailMail stations in Panama. At 4,500' feet in the town of Volcan.

Did you notice error statistics during your pactor session? That could be a good practical measure or signal quality.

It would be interesting to compare performance vs the free standing antenna. Maybe you could set it up temporarily so that you could easily switch the leads to do a comparison with the same time/station.

I didn't note the error stats, I'll have to look at that. When you say free standing antenna, do you mean the Whip (not aboard) or the long wire?

I intend to do as you say, and check the performance of the long wire, and the rigging, and compare the two. I'll do it with pactor, but I'm most interested in voice. Pactor seems to pick out signals where the human ear can't even tell it's there. I want to be sure I have the best possible voice signal; which is why I also want to be sure the Speech compressor is "on".

Thanks for your suggestions, I'll let you know how the comparison on Pactor goes in a day or so.

Cheers.
Paul.

belizesailor · 21-07-2021, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIT

I didn't note the error stats, I'll have to look at that. When you say free standing antenna, do you mean the Whip (not aboard) or the long wire?

I intend to do as you say, and check the performance of the long wire, and the rigging, and compare the two. I'll do it with pactor, but I'm most interested in voice. Pactor seems to pick out signals where the human ear can't even tell it's there. I want to be sure I have the best possible voice signal; which is why I also want to be sure the Speech compressor is "on".

Thanks for your suggestions, I'll let you know how the comparison on Pactor goes in a day or so.

Cheers.

Paul.

I meant the whip, which I saw you had already acquired, but didnt know you didnt have aboard.

GRIT · 21-07-2021, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I'm a little late on this thread, but on my first boat....a ketch....I rigged a pvc pipe on the corner of the stern rail, with the top around 8' of the deck. right under the deck was the autotuner. from there I ran a coated galvanized steel cable up thru' the pvc pipe to the top of the mizzen, keeping it about 12" shy of the mast, ended it with an insulator and a rope connection to a tang on top of the mizzen. The length of the wire was probably around 30'. The boat had a steel hull, so that was my ground.
It worked like a charm and I had no problems connecting to anyone anywhere.

In later years, I got newer boats, but always replicated, more or less, my original contraption.....pvc pipe and sleeved galvanized wire. As before, never had an issue either sending or receiving. As my later boats were fiberglass, they were fitted with bronze grounding plates.

As the antenna wire was angled a bit, the direction my boat was pointed at, did seem to make a small difference in signal quality, but so you'd notice.

Ham clubs are everywhere. I suggest you find a local one and join. Ham enthusiasts will be more than happy to help you out in any way they can.

Hi Hugh. Thanks for your suggestions. My plan is similar (though without the grounding plate). So far, I'm testing with tinned copper wire. I've tried 14ga, but have just installed a 10ga wire of 100 ft long. I'll do some testing on it and report back here.

My two counterpoise systems are: a KISS system, and a copper foil connecting two through hulls. They are tested separately, and once together.

I don't have a "local" yet, as we're travelling too much to join anything these days. I will retake my HAM license when we get back to the USA, and will engage the help of some of the nets. I used to be a regular on 14300, MMSN.

Cheers.
Paul.

GRIT · 21-07-2021, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian.D

I might has a suggestion, and it is ONLY and suggestion so don't beat me up.

There are two Amateur Radio digital networks that are very popular. To listen does not require a Ham License. But what is needed is the software and a Ham Radio Maidenhead Grid Locator map. The map is static so any copy, either hard or soft, will work.

The purpose of this to help identify station locations that you hear. The Maidenhead Grid is comprised of two letter, two numbers, two letter. An example would be my Grid locator of DM13. This puts me in the SoCal area and part of Arizona. To get more detailed, it would be DM13if. That puts me squarely in the San Diego region.

The software is called WSJT-X. This software is what is used by hams to send and receive location and signal reports. Takes about 1 minute of four 15-second bursts to complete the communication. Again, the contact is just signal strength and location. What is most important to the listener is the Maidenhead Grid Locator. With this information, one can get a general understanding of where signals are coming from. Now, a caveat. Digital will get through when voice will not. So unless the signal is super strong, it may only be usable via digital, such as pactor.

Ham bands are very close to Marine band, usually. I use the WSPR (Weak Signal Propagation Report) part of the WSTJ-X to see if my path for WinLink is open to certain areas.

Again, this is just a suggestion, nothing more. You can read this and say, meh - not for me. That is all good. Or, you might check it out and see if there is anything worth trying. If you have a Ham License (General Class or higher) you can get on WSPR and see who hears you and how well they hear you. You will need an internet connection to view the report map. I find that more stations hear me than I can hear. This is related to my antenna, and local interference such as my home solar panels.

WSJT-X
WSPR
Maidenhead Grid Locator System

Again, just a suggestion, nothing more.

Good luck.

Hi Brian. Thanks for your suggestion. I'll look into those programs, it sounds like a great way to analyze my radio's performance.

As soon as I get my HAM license back, I'll try that out.

Thank you.
Paul.

GRIT · 21-07-2021, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by belizesailor

I meant the whip, which I saw you had already acquired, but didnt know you didnt have aboard.

I'm hoping not to have to use the whip. It's in storage at the moment. If I don't get satisfactory results with what I have now, I will install the whip, and hope for better results.

Cheers.
Paul.

GRIT · 21-07-2021, 17:14

I forgot to answer BelizeSailor's question regards marinas.

We are in a marina, I'll try it at anchor soon too. I didn't think of that, thanks.

Paul.

belizesailor · 21-07-2021, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIT

I'm hoping not to have to use the whip. ...

That's what she said! [emoji1787]

belizesailor · 21-07-2021, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIT

I forgot to answer BelizeSailor's question regards marinas.

We are in a marina, I'll try it at anchor soon too. I didn't think of that, thanks.

Paul.

Oh yeah, being in a marina can have a huge negative impact on performance.

MicHughV · 21-07-2021, 18:36

Grit,

You can buy a ready made whip antenna, and they work fine.....however, as you probably already know, they are quite tall....23'.....the bottom part is relatively stiff, but the upper part will sway and dance around in the wind.....not good....

I had considered the whip, as I didn't want to go the route of the insulated backstay, primarily, because on my first boat, being a ketch, the main backstays and mizzen shrouds were only inches from each other, and I was concerned the autotuner might misread the length of the wire.
I initially had my doubts about my "homemade" end fed wire, 1/8" plastic sleeved galv. wire, 7x19 wire, but it worked amazingly well.
My boat was equipped with both a SSB and Kenwood Ham radio. The SSB was a Stephens 222, and it came with a tuner, so I used the SSB to tune the wire. I had both radio's connected to this system. I had to keep the SSB on to power the tuner, but had an antenna switch to to put the Kenwood online, this put the SSB off line, but kept the tuner powered up.
Sounds involved, but it really wasn't. I didn't use the SSB all that much. It was handy back then to get in touch with WOM, the High Seas Operator, but they are also defunct now.

My girlfriend of the time, had a dad that was an avid Ham. He had an antenna farm in his backyard, and he wanted to stay in touch with his daughter, so he pushed me into getting my Ham license. He told me the General band width was too cluttered, so pushed me to get my extra license, so he could have space to talk.This meant learning morse code at 20 wpm, which was easier than I had feared, but off course, code is not required these days.

The things I did for love...sigh...he helped me put my installation together.

Anyhow, we would routinely hook up with him, often 1,000's of miles away, never had any problem.

I must profess, I had his help. He always wanted to know where we were and would give us a time and frequency to hook up with, this saved me from chasing around looking for him and vice-versa.

It's worth your while to chase after the extra license, if you don't already have this, as the extra bandwidths are not nearly as cluttered as the general.

Though I got my extra license, it took me some time before I got to know all the ins and outs of Ham. This is where a Ham club comes in handy. I had help from quite a few very experienced Hams, without whom, I would likely not have gotten very far and their experience was invaluable.

I'm rambling on a bit here, but wanted to encourage you to keep at it.

Brian.D · 22-07-2021, 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIT

Hi Brian. Thanks for your suggestion. I'll look into those programs, it sounds like a great way to analyze my radio's performance.

As soon as I get my HAM license back, I'll try that out.

Thank you.
Paul.

I stand corrected that DM13 put me in North San Diego County and part of Orange and Los Angeles Counties, not Arizona. Grid Square DM goes from the Pacific Coast to Texas.

GRIT · 22-07-2021, 12:59

Nice Story Hugh.

I have a whip antenna, in my shed. It's a two piece unit, so I can't get it to the boat before arriving in Charlottetown (where my shed is), since each piece is so long, it won't fit in a car unless strapped to the outside.

In any case, my wife and I both find a whip to be a bit of an eyesore, and we would rather have some other kind of antenna; which is why I'm doing the tests I'm doing now. If we aren't satisfied with the rig, or longwire, then we'll install the whip, but it's our last resort.

So far, the (extra long) longwire is working well. I'm going to turn the boat around and do more tests, but so far, my "inverted V longwire" seems to do the trick. Last night, I checked e-mail using trinidad, Panama, texas, and California.

Now I have to do my voice tests, before I can say I'm satisfied. I'm hoping I can try contacting the DooDah net tonight, as I missed the cruiseheimer's net this morning.

I can't say I've found a noticeable difference between the two through hulls, and the KISS counterpoise. I'll keep switching back and forth to see what I can learn.

Cheers for now.
Paul.

GRIT · 22-07-2021, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian.D

I stand corrected that DM13 put me in North San Diego County and part of Orange and Los Angeles Counties, not Arizona. Grid Square DM goes from the Pacific Coast to Texas.

Thanks Brian. I'm building a fridge right now, so my radio time is limited, but I'm filing all this information away for a later time, when I can really dig into it.

Cheers.
Paul.

team karst · 22-07-2021, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIT

Nice Story Hugh.

.., In any case, my wife and I both find a whip to be a bit of an eyesore, and we would rather have some other kind of antenna; which ...

.

Cheers for now.

Paul.

Interesting. Our aft mounted 23’ whip is lost in the clutter of our cat.

Also, what is KISS counterpoise?

MicHughV · 22-07-2021, 14:15

I have on occasion seen a sailboat with the whip on the transom. It looks wildly out of place for sure. It has to be braced with some " legs" which ads to the clutter back there.

I did come across a boat, that used a "portable" long wire. He had the tuner under a cockpit seat, and would haul the long wire up with a spare halyard. I was told it worked, but can't give more details as I don't know how well this worked.

With Satphones, wi-fi, computers, etc, you don't see many boats equipped with Ham radio anymore. It appears Ham will go the way of the dodo bird one day.