To rewire, or to leave alone?

[Jenta]

I faced a similar situation in our 2009 Lagoon 440. The first owner had her for most of her years (we just purchased in May of 2019) and the second owner had her less than a year and the third only about 6 months. (The wife never could shake getting seasick) The original owner made lots of additions and was not afraid to put holes in the boat all over mounting 7 electric heaters and countless doodads. The second owner appears to have done several upgrades with the intention of doing something far more substantial with the boat but evidently something didn't work out as they only had her for a year or so from what I could tell. I think they were the one that upgraded the 2 MFD's to Raymarine C125's, a Camino 108W AIS, added a Raymarine itc-5 and added a standard wind sensor instead of the ultrasonic one that was aboard. There were also several TV related things including a satellite TV system (Gomex) and other odds and ends including an autohorn that got wet and started going off when Dorian was smacking us around in Morehead City, NC.

Anyway - the point of the background is that we had a mish-mash of systems and no one to talk to about them. Some of them were done right but like you - there were several areas that were kind of like "What were they thinking"?
Lots of extra wires here and there, and old things that were replaced and yet not all the pieces removed. We had a working system but it wasn't flawless like yours. If it had been I too would likely have just waited to a future refit when everything would be upgraded to equipment of the same era and replace it all then.
Instead, we had our AIS dropping in and out of communication with the network and not STW reading even though it was all clean. So I had to do a little digging. And what I found was that it was time VERY well spent because I learned the boat. I am still stripping things off, but not only have I redone the cabling correctly and fixed the problems we were having, but I also understand THIS system much better and have confidence to work on it and troubleshoot it even though it is not all "stock"
We also took some pretty heavy sea spray to the flybridge and ended up killing an St70 and the dial on the C125 went sketchy. I took that apart and cleaned it enough to get it working again, but the ST70 appeared to have been leaking for a while and was heavily corroded inside.
So... I did the most logical thing and added yet another system in to the mix.
I bought a B&G Trident display to replace it and added NEMA 2000 to the network.

I'm happy to report that worked just fine and I even added the Yacht Devices NEMA 2000 to WiFi device and connected it to my boat WiFi so I can connect up to my NEMA 2000 network (and the SeaTalk networks) from my laptop or iPad.
When we do refit, I intend to go with all NEMA 2000 stuff and mostly B&G - so this was a step in that direction.

For your situation though, you might want to wait - or you may want to just go through it a section at a time and see how it goes.
Just start with one box maybe and see how that goes. You may find that things are working flawlessly but only by a whisker and because you went through the system you either fixed it or know where the weak spots might be so if it comes up while you're out there and relying on it - you aren't starting from zero.

My thoughts anyway. Good luck!

[sailormed]

As this is a mismatch of Seatalk 1 Seatalk NG and converters, do NOT touch it.
You are going to open up a nest of wasps and get hurt badly!

Save your time and money untill you are going to replace EVERYTHING with a brand new NMEA2000 system.

You are only going to loose your time and you will save a lot of breath on swearwords!

[Suijin]

If you're looking at a future refit I would leave it alone except where there is an obvious vulnerability.

SOME apparently excess wire with soldered connections can be good if it's for stress relief.

[moseriw]

Simple: one should avoid soldering wherever it is possible as soldered connections are the first that will corrode. Yes you can solder but one need some special tin for that and even the experts do not know exactly which one.

I think for reliability reasons you should rewire it. It is not a problem as the converter from Seatalk to NG is just a simple plug.

btw. I "bussed" from Seatalk to NG and further to NMEA2000 to feed a Vespermarine XB-8000 active and passive AIS. This works as an downgrade converter from 2000 to 0183 and sends the data via WiFi to any unit you want (+ USB-cable backup)

For me it works very very well and enables me to have 3 cheap tablets (2in1).
One Navroom, one Bridge and one spare. (for 700 USD at all)

The XB-8000 is around 800 USD and really, it works like a charm

Do not hesitate! The rewirking takes about one week of brainache and half a day to install it. Just do it - for security reasons.

[moseriw]

Avoid using automotive plug connectors wherever it is possible. Use Ring connectors and screws. Im possible use tinned wires. If there are already copper wires check, and if necessary renew the connectors. Buy a good tool to crimp the bare metal connectors and use clear shrinkhoses with glue (You are able to printout wire numbers or eve descriptions and put them inside the transparent shrink hosese.

110V/230V renew the connections every year and check if the wires are black and corroded. This happens very very fast to AC wires.

[moseriw]

if you need help in wiring the NavBusses - Ask - I am here

[Capn Jimbo]

"I like the idea of leaving it be until ready for a top down refit, so long as I can count on it."

The $64,000 question... as long as you can count on it? No one - nor you - can say that with any confidence at all. Period. The answer is obvious: you hope for the best but plan on the worst. It's easy to rewire - and learn - a bit at a time. I shouldn't have to tell you to begin with the areas you wonder about.

However your question is a valid one - but - so is your decision after so many shared their advice. What are you going to do? Allow us the benefit of your thinking...

[maJer]

Originally Posted by moseriw

btw. I "bussed" from Seatalk to NG and further to NMEA2000 to feed a Vespermarine XB-8000 active and passive AIS. This works as an downgrade converter from 2000 to 0183 and sends the data via WiFi to any unit you want (+ USB-cable backup)

For me it works very very well and enables me to have 3 cheap tablets (2in1).
One Navroom, one Bridge and one spare. (for 700 USD at all)

The XB-8000 is around 800 USD and really, it works like a charm

How did you bridge from Seatalk1 to NMEA2K? I am trying to do the same thing and I am planning on using the the setalk1 to seatalkng converter and then pushing that to a wifi device like the Actisense W2K-1, NMEA 2000 TO WI-FI.
Below is a picture of what I am using to get to NMEA2k.

[maJer]

My personal opinion is that that if it bothers you now, it will continue to bother you until you do something about it. So you may as well clean it up. It will give you confidence in the system and if something does stop working flawlessly, you will have a better shot at knowing where to start looking.

Since it sounds like messy wiring is the real problem you don't have to redo everything. Start with whatever bothers you the most. Make sure to take detailed pictures of before and after to show us and good luck.

[Jhardgrave]

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

The $64,000 question... as long as you can count on it? No one - nor you - can say that with any confidence at all. Period. The answer is obvious: you hope for the best but plan on the worst. It's easy to rewire - and learn - a bit at a time. I shouldn't have to tell you to begin with the areas you wonder about.

However your question is a valid one - but - so is your decision after so many shared their advice. What are you going to do? Allow us the benefit of your thinking...

My conclusive thoughts are this:

- My boat is used primarily for coastal cruising not really exceeding 20 miles, and I carry two independent back up GPS systems, so I'm going to rule safety out of the discussion for using the existing setup.

- Im going to give the system a once over, and inspect it as best I can non destructively.

- I was truthfully unaware of the used market value of my circa 2008 navigation suite, and that it can substantially offset the future purchase of new equipment.

So all in all, I will continue to use my equipment as it stands for now, and add pennies to the jar to one day do a total replacement.


Also side note, thank you guys for the overwhelmingly positive support on this forum, it is a stark contrast from the mood at other forums I visit for my truck.

[neflier]

Originally Posted by maJer

How did you bridge from Seatalk1 to NMEA2K? I am trying to do the same thing and I am planning on using the the setalk1 to seatalkng converter and then pushing that to a wifi device like the Actisense W2K-1, NMEA 2000 TO WI-FI.
Below is a picture of what I am using to get to NMEA2k.

I just did this, using what you suggest, and it works flawlessly. The Raymarine Seatalk to Seatalk NG device is a plug and play converter. Seatalk NG and NMEA2K are the exact same protocol. The only difference is the connector on the cable. Raymarine sells the "conversion" cable.

[patrick brooks]

redo or not, first make a map / diagram of old include color maybe picture. fair winds

[OS2Dude]

If it ain't broke, we can fix that!

[sdj]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

And obviously the previous owner learned that electrically the most reliable wiring connection is a soldered connection.

On my previous boat all the hidden electrical connections were twisted, soldered, hot melt glue coated then heat shrink insulated. Heating the heat shrink re-melted to hot melt glue and the excess was squeezed out the ends. In 30 years not one failure.

The saving grace here isn't the soldered connections - it's the protection of the same by exclusion of moisture and oxygen.

Soldered connections aren't the best way to join wires. Without stress-relief, it point-loads the wire at the soldered joint and leaves flux and acids with corrode the wiring - this has to be cleaned off and then protected, which in any marine enviironment means 'clean and exclude moisture and oxygen'.

To answer your question, I'd leave it, but clean and add protection where appropriate. If there was any corrosion, that would be a different story.

[Auspicious]

sdj in post #29 got my second reaction to the OP. My first is document, document, document. Start tracing wires and cables and start building a wiring diagram. You'll never regret documentation.