Buying Boat Gear Just Got More Expensive

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by steve77

Maybe it's obvious to you, but not me.

I have never heard that sales tax was due on items purchased online from a business located in another state. Nor have I ever heard of a mechanism to pay such sales tax. Assuming it is true and sales tax has been due for these many years, I would lay long odds that you will be hard pressed to find many people here in the US who are aware of it.

Steve

Don't feel bad Steve, some States did while others didn't require it's subjects to pay the Tax. But None really did anyway, so it's a mute point.

SCOTUS Reversing (not clarifying) their prior ruling has opened the Door to States Requiring out of State Sellers to act as their Tax Man. It won't just add the price of the tax collected, but the administrative costs as well.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by steve77

Maybe it's obvious to you, but not me.

I have never heard that sales tax was due on items purchased online from a business located in another state. Nor have I ever heard of a mechanism to pay such sales tax. Assuming it is true and sales tax has been due for these many years, I would lay long odds that you will be hard pressed to find many people here in the US who are aware of it.

Steve

I can’t speak to people’s ignorance of the law (if indeed it is the law). Sales taxes typically pay for local and regional government services. This is why they are levied based on where you live, not where you buy the product.

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Illegal?
You mean like all those Mail Drops South of the Canadian Border for Canadians to have US Companies ship their orders to so they can drive across the Border, stash the product in their trunk and then smuggle the items back into their Country to avoid Canadian Taxes? Ha ha ha.....

That's been happening long before El Trumpo came into office mi Amigo....but nice try.

Every Canadian is legally allowed to bring a certain amount of goods across the border, duty free. If someone is shipping something to a border address, then carrying it across themselves, then they can claim this amount. That’s all perfectly legal. If the good exceeds the limits it is slapped with both our federal and provincial sales taxes (if applicable). Ha ha ha...

If someone is smuggling something across the border, then it is clearly illegal. Always has been, always will be.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Illegal?
You mean like all those Mail Drops South of the Canadian Border for Canadians to have US Companies ship their orders to so they can drive across the Border, stash the product in their trunk and then smuggle the items back into their Country to avoid Canadian Taxes? Ha ha ha.....

That's been happening long before El Trumpo came into office mi Amigo....but nice try.

Sorry Rich-but that's definitely "fake news".
The real reason for shipping drops at US/Canada border towns is the outrageous cost of getting the pkg thru Canadian Customs as a commercial shipment.
The minimum cost,by UPS/FEDEX/others is $50 (brokerage fee),$50 (handling fee) & freight from Windsor,Ont.(the only commercial processing center) + the Cdn side frt. is 3X the US side frt.
If I have an envelope size pkg. for a $5 item shipped from US to my home,the landed cost is approaching $150.
If I can convince the US company to mail that same pkg(up to 66lb), I can get it for $20 & up-but most US companies don't want to bother with USPost. It is easier for them to use a courier which comes right to their loading dock.
If I have a parcel drop shipped to a US address,go over & pick it up,bring it to Cdn Customs,declare it-under NAFTA-there is zero duty/tarriff on US made products,but I do have to pay a sales tax-there is no way to avoid sales tax.
As far as smuggling,you can risk it. The penalty is loss of goods,triple value of goods fine & of course,loss of your original investment.
Border guards aren't stupid. Telling them you have nothing to declare & you have only been across the border a couple of hours tends to ring bells.


I hope this explains some of the hoops we have to jump thru to legally & economically import small stuff into Canada. / Len

[deblen]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I can’t speak to people’s ignorance of the law (if indeed it is the law). Sales taxes typically pay for local and regional government services. This is why they are levied based on where you live, not where you buy the product.



Every Canadian is legally allowed to bring a certain amount of goods across the border, duty free. If someone is shipping something to a border address, then carrying it across themselves, then they can claim this amount. That’s all perfectly legal. If the good exceeds the limits it is slapped with both our federal and provincial sales taxes (if applicable). Ha ha ha...

If someone is smuggling something across the border, then it is clearly illegal. Always has been, always will be.

Mike. I have to butt in & make it clear that a Cdn. has to spend 48hrs. in the US before we are eligible for the $200/person exemption.
The cost of 2 nights in the states negates the savings gained by the exemption. Len

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by deblen

Mike. I have to butt in & make it clear that a Cdn. has to spend 48hrs. in the US before we are eligible for the $200/person exemption.
The cost of 2 nights in the states negates the savings gained by the exemption. Len

Yes, it’s usually not worth it. The main benefit for small shipments is as you explained; avoiding those exorbinant “broker’s fees” charged by the big shippers. USPS is usually the best deal.

One small detail. It’s actually $200 after 24 hrs, and $800 after 48 hours. I’ve planned a few big American purchases by combining it with a nice little visit to my favourite southern country.

https://travel.gc.ca/returning/custo...ons-mini-guide

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Illegal?
You mean like all those Mail Drops South of the Canadian Border for Canadians to have US Companies ship their orders to so they can drive across the Border, stash the product in their trunk and then smuggle the items back into their Country to avoid Canadian Taxes? Ha ha ha.....

Nope. Legal, and acceptable to Canadian Customs as long as you don’t cheat. I have lived quite close to the border and used this service in the past. Why? More than one reason, obviously, but here are the two main ones for me:

1. US seller only ships to the US. Often the smaller sellers, I might add.
2. Cross border shipments can take a long time / get lost / get extra charges for “handling”.
3. Extraordinary discounts, but only in 48 contiguous states.

I always declared, went into the building, paid my taxes and went on my way. It’s not that hard. It’s what people who believe in the “social contract” do. It does work. It’s not socialism, just human decency. Of course there are cheats. Always will be. Cheating erodes self-esteem. Not really worth it.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by deblen

Sorry Rich-but that's definitely "fake news".

Originally Posted by BigNut

It’s what people who believe in the “social contract” do. It does work. It’s not socialism, just human decency. Of course there are cheats. Always will be. Cheating erodes self-esteem. Not really worth it.

Ah no.....
Why do I know that?
Because I sell water makers to Canadians monthly and they always ask me to ship to a mail drop for the expressed purpose of saving on Taxes. So you can live in your fantasy world that Canadians somehow like their higher taxes and are happy to pay them while the ugly Americans are always trying to avoid them. But as someone who ships water makers and refrigeration systems around the world...NOPE...people are the same everywhere. They all take active steps to avoid paying Taxes.

Now having a store here in Mexico that sells cruising gear to cruisers...how many Cruisers smuggle boat parts in to Countries around the world to avoid the Duty/Taxes? Almost ALL of US. So rather than paying the 16% in Mexico or the 50% in the Bahamas to "help the locals" Cruisers SMUGGLE in their Parts.....so please put away the smugness that we all want to pay our fair share for the Good of Humanity...ha ha ha... because the reality on the ground Trumps the talk on Chat Rooms.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ah no.....
Why do I know that?
Because I sell water makers to Canadians monthly and they always ask me to ship to a mail drop for the expressed purpose of saving on Taxes. So you can live in your fantasy world that Canadians somehow like their higher taxes and are happy to pay them while the ugly Americans are always trying to avoid them. But as someone who ships water makers and refrigeration systems around the world...NOPE...people are the same everywhere. They all take active steps to avoid paying Taxes.

Now having a store here in Mexico that sells cruising gear to cruisers...how many Cruisers smuggle boat parts in to Countries around the world to avoid the Duty/Taxes? Almost ALL of US. So rather than paying the 16% in Mexico or the 50% in the Bahamas to "help the locals" Cruisers SMUGGLE in their Parts.....so please put away the smugness that we all want to pay our fair share for the Good of Humanity...ha ha ha... because the reality on the ground Trumps the talk on Chat Rooms.

I think your comments reflect more about your attitude than “almost all of us.”

Shipping to a border address, and then bringing the item across, can easily result in huge savings — NONE OF WHICH ARE NECESSARILY ILLEGAL.

Brokerage fees are usually based on a percentage of the price of the item, so a large item like a water maker will result in a huge fee. That alone justifies the request you get from Canadians. And like I say, for a large ticket item, it may well be cost effective to visit the fine USA for a couple of days before driving back with the item.

There are no doubt cheaters, but I think it would be quite the risk to be trying to clear through the border with a bunch of new parts for a watermaker for a boat. Anyone who tried that is very likely going to get caught.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I think your comments reflect more about your attitude than “almost all of us.” .

Ya of course...my REAL LIFE day-in and day-out reality in what I see Cruisers/Boaters Doing somehow says more about MY Attitude than the people I see all looking to save on Taxes. See Mike, that is called living in a Bubble, where the reality you WANT to believe is imputed onto situations that if you accept as is, or as the facts show them to be, would cause a conflict between your theory and reality. So it's easier to blame such data on "my attitude" than the actual happening now events on the ground. It's not a healthy way to live, the truth is always the best policy even if speaking it isn't popular.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ya of course...my REAL LIFE day-in and day-out reality in what I see Cruisers/Boaters Doing somehow says more about MY Attitude than the people I see all looking to save on Taxes. See Mike, that is called living in a Bubble, where the reality you WANT to believe is imputed onto situations that if you accept as is, or as the facts show them to be, would cause a conflict between your theory and reality. So it's easier to blame such data on "my attitude" than the actual happening now events on the ground. It's not a healthy way to live, the truth is always the best policy even if speaking it isn't popular.

I assume you’re looking in a mirror while writing this .

I and deblen have both presented you with FACTS about how the border works. All the people I know who have done this do it legally.

I have no doubt you interact with some people who try and circumvent the law, but there are PLENTY of reasons to have a large item shipped to a border address that DO NOT involve committing a crime.

[BigNut]

[QUOTE=SV THIRD DAY;2660392So you can live in your fantasy world that Canadians somehow like their higher taxes and are happy to pay them while the ugly Americans are always trying to avoid them.
[/QUOTE]

Not sure how you can extrapolate from what I said to this statement, Rich. Nobody likes taxes, and your assumption that they are higher is another assumption that only looks at it in a very myopic way.

As a Canadian, who lived close to the border before moving aboard, I can also tell you about MANY of my friends and colleagues who shipped to border locations, and they all paid when it was due. AND THEY STILL SAVED MONEY. Just as a f'rex, here is the conversation that I often had: "Good day sir, how long were you away from Canada?" "About 25 minutes?" "Bringing any goods back with you today, sir?" ...

Maybe you are prepared to lie at the border for a few hundred dollars, or more, but I, and most of the people I know, do not.

Anyway, this is obviously turning into whatever it is that seems to happen here on CF from time to time, so I'll leave it at that, and also leave this thread.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I assume you’re looking in a mirror while writing this .

I and deblen have both presented you with FACTS about how the border works. All the people I know who have done this do it legally.

I have no doubt you interact with some people who try and circumvent the law, but there are PLENTY of reasons to have a large item shipped to a border address that DO NOT involve committing a crime.

Sorry Amigo....when they also ask me for a Doctored invoice...yep...they are avoiding Taxes. See I have the advantage of having a larger sample pool than you because your buddies are not admitting to you what they are doing. But I'm just a Bloke in the States so they are much more comfortable in asking me to help them cheat on taxes. and it isn't just 1 out of 10 amigo...it's 9 out of 10.

[sailorboy1]

I don't but stuff off the internet in order to save the sales tax. I don't to pay the extra percentage, but that still a less than it would cost me to run around for something, just to give up and order it online instead anyway.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by steve77

I have never heard that sales tax was due on items purchased online from a business located in another state. Nor have I ever heard of a mechanism to pay such sales tax.

Often the mechanism is tied in with your fiscal year (e.g., income tax) filing document, and persons are expected to self-report.

-Chris

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Sales taxes typically pay for local and regional government services. This is why they are levied based on where you live, not where you buy the product.

Indeed. Hence the common difficulty that a locality's budgeted "income" is based on a postulation like X number of households at Y amount of spending results in Z amount of taxes... so the locality can pay for A or B or C local services.

Or not, when the projections are all wrong for various reasons...

I suspect at least one unintended consequence is that local income taxes, property taxes, etc. can get raised -- when localities have the power to do so --because they can't count on sales taxes. Income and property taxes tend to not be very discretionary, whereas people can control how much sales tax they pay by spending more, or less, their choice.

-Chris