A solution for derelict boats!

[Chotu]

Jeez. that local mafia makes a fortune already. Unbelievable.

it’s never enough money is it? No matter how many millions and millions of dollars they pull in.

they have some of the most expensive and largest boats in the entire country up there taking up dock space and paying through the nose for it, but it's still not enough.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Chotu

o each boat in their Anchorage and get the ID of the person that’s anchored there. Forget about limits on anchoring. Forget about all of that. Get the ID. make a note of the ID and registration. No ID or no registration? No anchoring. Get lost.

The police cannot ID someone without reasonable articulate suspicion that the person has committed is committing or is about to commit a crime.

You must hate the constitution and want to deny people rights. I hope you are not a US citizen because this is the wrong type of way of thinking and not the type of person I want to share the country with.

I was recently arrested in florida for refusing to identify to the police. They had no right to ID me. The judge said I am innocent. Now I can sue the police. I will end up costing the city of key west thousands of dollars because the police didnt respect my rights.

If a cop asks me for ID I refuse: MY RIGHTS MY RIGHTS I will NEVER SHUT UP about MY RIGHTS.

[Chotu]

Your "rights" are long gone. I think you are out cruising. I remember you. I like you. You have a lot of unique and thoughtful philosophies.

but anyway your rights are long gone. You can’t even anchor in many towns anymore for any length of time. You can stay for a certain amount of time and then you must leave. The police come over to you immediately to check you in and inform you of these rules. Then they will come over to you and make you leave after the 14 days is up in the case of Newport Rhode Island. They take down your boat name and registration numbers which quickly identifies you or at least the owner. The rules are different for different places. Some of them don’t allow anchoring at all and you must buy a mooring.

And that’s just boats. Imagine all those license plate readers everywhere now. I know you are not here anymore. But you shouldn’t come back if you like rights. They are mostly gone already.

But it doesn’t really matter if it’s a cop. I’m just thinking of cops because that’s the ones that usually kick you out of the Anchorage or come around in the first place to tell you about how you can only anchor for seven days or something. It would be easy for them to just do the ID at that point as well as the registration. If you have a problem with this, the town can just do it. Forget the cops. They can just appoint somebody from the town to come around and do that. It doesn’t matter who does the IDs. It doesn't have to be the water cops.

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

The police cannot ID someone without reasonable articulate suspicion that the person has committed is committing or is about to commit a crime.

You must hate the constitution and want to deny people rights. I hope you are not a US citizen because this is the wrong type of way of thinking and not the type of person I want to share the country with.

I was recently arrested in florida for refusing to identify to the police. They had no right to ID me. The judge said I am innocent. Now I can sue the police. I will end up costing the city of key west thousands of dollars because the police didnt respect my rights.

If a cop asks me for ID I refuse: MY RIGHTS MY RIGHTS I will NEVER SHUT UP about MY RIGHTS.

[Fore and Aft]

Chotu how about setting up a boat wreckers that pays $500 for every wreck delivered to their jetty? It sounds crazy but it is bound to be the cheapest option. I know here in Queensland if we had a boat wreckers more than one owner would be happy to unload their old boat. We have 235,000 registered boat owners in Queensland. So charge us all a $20 boat disposal fee and then we have a 4.7 million dollar fund to use every year. The hard part is going to be working out a disposal cost for different types of boats. One boat yard owner I know regularly talks about this with me. He's happy to use his yard as a wrecking place as often his staff are inbetween jobs and a sideline like this could absorb the downtime.
Cheers

[MicHughV]

Funny.....try talking about your rights as you are about to be boarded by the Coast Guard, or the go-fast DEA boat with armed agents aboard, let me know how that works out for you.

A co-operative attitude will prove to be the far better game plan than a blank refusal.

[Madehn]

IMHO more govt oversight is the last thing we need. After all they are so efficient at what they already do right? I like the idea of the fee and a boat wrecking yard. Put a bounty on bringing in derelict boats and the problem will fix itself.
Personally I agree with the no id if I didn’t commit a crime or there is a reasonable suspicion that I have. That said if a policeman asks me respectfully for ID I respectfully give it in a spirit of cooperation. If they are confrontational then I tend to be less cooperative. A federal statute on what rights we all have on waterways and coastal areas would go a long way towards standardizing and rationalizing competing interests and expectations Complicated issue with no simple solution I truly believe their needs to be an economic incentive to get rid of the derelicts without penalizing the thousands of boaters with more checks tracking and documentation demands by authorities.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

The police cannot ID someone without reasonable articulate suspicion that the person has committed is committing or is about to commit a crime.

You must hate the constitution and want to deny people rights. I hope you are not a US citizen because this is the wrong type of way of thinking and not the type of person I want to share the country with.

I was recently arrested in florida for refusing to identify to the police. They had no right to ID me. The judge said I am innocent. Now I can sue the police. I will end up costing the city of key west thousands of dollars because the police didnt respect my rights.

If a cop asks me for ID I refuse: MY RIGHTS MY RIGHTS I will NEVER SHUT UP about MY RIGHTS.

We are not talking about someone randomly on the water, we are talking about people in places that already have rules and regulations for use that limit that use - if you don't want to show ID, you are not obligated to use the anchorage if the anchorage rules require ID. Go elsewhere. You do not have to use THAT specific anchorage to be able to use the waterways. I don't think the rights you're talking about have anything to do with it.

The police can't demand your ID for walking down the street. That's not at all the same thing.

[s/v Jedi]

Yeah let’s get the police involved, what can go wrong?

I think we have a bit more to be concerned with than some derelict boats. I avoid anchorages where police boats patrol, I look for anchorages where only boats like us are

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Yeah let’s get the police involved, what can go wrong?

I think we have a bit more to be concerned with than some derelict boats. I avoid anchorages where police boats patrol, I look for anchorages where only boats like us are

Yes, Jedi, but you are really, with your vessel, at the upper end of things.

As it happens, I agree with you, it is an horrible idea. Just because less interference is better. The problem is, that Chotu is seeing degradation of his cruising grounds that he feels is very sad, and detrimental to other cruisers. If we're going to disparage his suggestion, then it is incumbent upon us to come up with a better plan. ...You remember how this works: you just volunteered.

Ann

[sailorboy1]

Haven't read all, the thread

But I feel the problem is better than 6 years ago.

Of course weather might be the reason

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Funny.....try talking about your rights as you are about to be boarded by the Coast Guard, or the go-fast DEA boat with armed agents aboard, let me know how that works out for you.

A co-operative attitude will prove to be the far better game plan than a blank refusal.

This can’t be overstated.

During the stop it is not time to talk about rights. That’s for the court date if you have one.

A lot of people don’t seem to understand this. Subservience and friendly respect is what you do when you are dealing with the authorities.

The place to fight is the court room if you had to go to one.

More often than not even if there is a problem they will let you go if you’re nice to them.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Madehn

IMHO more govt oversight is the last thing we need. After all they are so efficient at what they already do right? I like the idea of the fee and a boat wrecking yard. Put a bounty on bringing in derelict boats and the problem will fix itself.
Personally I agree with the no id if I didn’t commit a crime or there is a reasonable suspicion that I have. That said if a policeman asks me respectfully for ID I respectfully give it in a spirit of cooperation. If they are confrontational then I tend to be less cooperative. A federal statute on what rights we all have on waterways and coastal areas would go a long way towards standardizing and rationalizing competing interests and expectations Complicated issue with no simple solution I truly believe their needs to be an economic incentive to get rid of the derelicts without penalizing the thousands of boaters with more checks tracking and documentation demands by authorities.

It isn’t more government oversight it’s less!

My plan gets rid of all of those awful anchoring restrictions. That’s huge government oversight. Gone.

I come from an area of the country where we are big on personal freedoms, but with those personal freedoms come great personal responsibility. So I guess that’s where this comes from. My culture.

I’m not from a part of the country that’s only about freedom and not about responsibility.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Yeah let’s get the police involved, what can go wrong?

I think we have a bit more to be concerned with than some derelict boats. I avoid anchorages where police boats patrol, I look for anchorages where only boats like us are

OK, this is one approach. I can agree with that.

But don’t you have to stop in some areas? There are areas I need to stop in that are heavily regulated by the police. Where there are anchoring restrictions.

Newport Rhode Island is a perfect example. This harbor is one of the only places in that area that you can get a lot of things done for the boat. Especially provisioning. Otherwise, you can’t. There’s not much out there.

It’s essential for me to stop in Newport every time I go by. The second your anchor goes down the boat comes up to you and asks you what you are all about, takes down your boat information, and informs you that you cannot be there more than 14 days. Toward the end of the 14 days they are already irritated at you and trying to remind you it’s time to leave.

Yet, I need to stop in this harbor and get some things done every time I go by. It is the only place with all of those resources.

So what am I supposed to do? Just avoid it? Suffer? Not get the provisioning done and eat junk food?

What do you do in these cases?

Because I’m all for voting with my dollars and stuff, but if there are no other choices, what do you do?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Yes, Jedi, but you are really, with your vessel, at the upper end of things.

As it happens, I agree with you, it is an horrible idea. Just because less interference is better. The problem is, that Chotu is seeing degradation of his cruising grounds that he feels is very sad, and detrimental to other cruisers. If we're going to disparage his suggestion, then it is incumbent upon us to come up with a better plan. ...You remember how this works: you just volunteered.

Ann

But, I think a lot of people are missing one thing.

I am reducing the interference. Not increasing it. Reducing it.

One of the biggest points about this idea is to get rid of anchoring restrictions. Gone. Wouldn’t that be nice?

The same cops are already coming up to you to tell you how long you can anchor and kick you out of the harbor when the time is up.

Instead of all of that, better to just make the boater responsible for their boat. Then there is no more government interference.

Until you create a derelict boat. Then they should crush you.

[Chotu]

And I would have to say that this is a pretty Florida specific thing. In a lot of ways. It’s a good example state to picture when you are picturing this.

I wouldn’t for a minute think that you are just anonymously bouncing around Florida. You’re not.

Every bridge tender in the state compiles your boat into the big list of tracking us. That’s at the state level.