Liferaft: Yes or No

[sabray]

I'm trying to think of recent or any case where crew abandoned to a life raft.while the boat floated not fastnet usually we here if boats ditched because a radio was on board and mayday was called then .a ship yanks someone off a floating boat. Radios are the problem dint put a radio in board it makes you week.

[wolfenzee]

As my funds are extremely limited, adding a life raft of high enough quality that would make it worth deck space would either move the time I leave up into the future and/or be prevent me from dong something else, like replacing my standing rigging and chain plates or getting a new mainsail both of which have priority.
The best thing I have been told about a liferaft/boat is to always step up up into the raft, unless your boat is actually sinking it makes a better raft.

[DJBrookster]

Guess when it comes to a cost issue....how much is you life worth? If you've other people aboard are you taking your responsibility seriously?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by DJBrookster

Guess when it comes to a cost issue....how much is you life worth? If you've other people aboard are you taking your responsibility seriously?

Trading an ability to compartmentalise (helluva word that ) flooding by not having open plan living for the ability to enjoy drinks whilst lounging with freinds is apparently not a "safety" matter..........when instead can enjoy the safety blanket of a lightly built rubber ring, with a tent ontop .

Anyone ever wondered why liferaft training courses happen in swimming pools? It's because doing the same at sea would be guaranteed to kill quite a few people as a part of the process...........also seems to be a lack of liferaft marketing based around TESTERS staying aboard a liferaft for an extended stay in a F8+.......or even an F1

.......oh, and instead of a couple of inches onto the stanchions (they would look "Funny"? ) and solid s/s tube (top) guardrails instead of wire (wire is simply the cheaper to build / sell option) - why not wear lifejackets In fact, wear TWO - "just in case" .

[norsearayder]

i have 2 survival suits,raft[inspected] and a epirb..i sleep well,i have lost friends due to no survival suit or raft,one guy was fishing offshore in january when the boat broke up,he got 1 position out on radio.no boat or crew were found.this was pre 1988 when the fishermans saftey act made all 3 of these artickles mandatory

[boatman61]

I choose not to carry a life raft.... one is encomics... the other is space and weight.
My boats 21ft and when I move it carries all my tools and other possessions, food and water.... a dual purpose outboard and a semi-inflated 2.7 dinghy folded on the foredeck... can be a pain with the sheets snagging but thats a minor thing.
So.... as you can see there's nowhere to put a life raft even if I wanted one...
One thing I am curious about is how many of you have actually ever used a life raft... seems some of you think its the Holy Grail of Salvation... take a Sea Survival Course... the Commercial ones for Oilworkers/Seamen are best...
Its not... it has as many flaws and weaknesses as anything else available... plan your emergency routes/possibilities....
A dinghy can be as good as a life raft... just gotta set it up right before you head off not just a last minute 'Chuck in the Grab Bag'.
Mine has 2 x 5 litre water bottles and a waterproof bag with clothes, shoes, money and photocopies off all my doc's and passport..... and a few bags of 'Trailfood'....
The rest is in the grab bag....
You make the best of what you've got.... nothing is a guarantee ..
Survival suits are good if your in extreme areas where the temp is a killer

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by DJBrookster

Guess when it comes to a cost issue....how much is you life worth? If you've other people aboard are you taking your responsibility seriously?

Life can not be valued in a way that allows such comparisons.

b.

[Bash]

I would never venture on a transoceanic passage without a life raft, either in terms of my own boat or crewing on OP boats. That said, we currently don't own a raft because we will wait until a month prior to departure to purchase the raft that will accompany us on our retirement cruise. Purchasing it now would be a waste, largely because when we are coastal cruising we have a large RIB with oversize tubes in the davits, and a ditch bag always ready for use. Were I to make a long passage at present, or participate in a rally that required rafts, I would probably rent one for the duration of that cruise because, for now, we always return to our home port. But every time I go to a boat show I find myself looking at rafts and wondering whether they make a bit more economic sense.

I find the how-much-is-your-life-worth argument to be a bit disingenuous. The fact is that I've invested a great deal of money in safety systems, such as an automatic fire-suppression system in the engine room, carbon monoxide detectors in five of the living cabins, personal locator beacons for crew, an SOS emergency rudder, high-capacity backup bilge pumps, a drogue system, et cetera. Those are systems that, for now, have a better chance of saving my life than a raft.

[DJBrookster]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Life can not be valued in a way that allows such comparisons.

b.

Maybe not, but the point is that survival is a basic instinct, give yourself and any crew every possible chance. I totally agree about not abandoning until the boat is going down and similar points made. Maybe people not carrying them are just trying for the Darwin Awards.

As skipper you are responsible for the safety of your crew. Does "Lifeboats are too dear" sound justifiable? As I'm sure it would not stand up as reasonable care should you survive and your crew not in a court of law.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by DJBrookster

Maybe not, but the point is that survival is a basic instinct, give yourself and any crew every possible chance. I totally agree about not abandoning until the boat is going down and similar points made. Maybe people not carrying them are just trying for the Darwin Awards.

As skipper you are responsible for the safety of your crew. Does "Lifeboats are too dear" sound justifiable? As I'm sure it would not stand up as reasonable care should you survive and your crew not in a court of law.

No, but 'Liferafts are not justified' sounds reasonable. Same words, different order and taking account of other factors like distance from shore, likely conditions, other abandon ship facility like a decent dinghy ready to launch.

Don't buy a raft to satsify paranoia about potential litigation. By all means DO buy one however if the voyage plans justify it.

I outlined our case way back. We have had rafts on our sailboats for 25 years, never used, but we cruised in cold and harsh waters plus we occasionally raced offshore. Our new home for the two of us is a motor yacht which will be ICW based in warm Florida waters with some time out to the Bahamas periodically. We have a near new quality (Hypalon) RIB, 11'6" or 3.5m with large diameter tubes and a 15hp Yamaha fitted, with separate fuel tank and spare fuel. This is ready to launch in minutes, we store the PFDs in it anyway and we will have a grab bag of more gear than a raft contains, plus another with more food/water and personal stuff. The boat has automatic fire control in the engine room, multiple extinguishers strategically located and all, including the hull and all thru hulls etc etc have just been surveyed. Assuming our planned itinerary above, we will never be more than 30 mles from land in some direction, and mostly nearer than a mile. Our RIB at 20kts could get us to land in around 90 minutes, say after a fire on board that occurred at our very farthest point from land (what odds on that?). In any case one of the RIB grab bags would hold a handheld VHF, handheld GPS/plotter and the planned epirb.

I don't think that qualifies for a Darwin award.

[wolfenzee]

I would rather spend x$ on making my boat a safer vessel for things that will happen than on something that probably/hopefully will not. preventive safety vs. one of the options for worst case senerio
Just to clarify something was this "dedicated commercially produced inflatable life raft" or does some sort of survival system set up ahead of time count, like a tender that would function as a lifeboat.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by DJBrookster

As I'm sure it would not stand up as reasonable care should you survive and your crew not in a court of law.

"court of law" - So american like!

[Hud3]

Steve Callahan wouldn't have been able to write his book, Adrift, if he hadn't a life raft aboard.

From a Wikipedia article...

He departed El Hierro in the Canary Islands on January 29, 1982, still headed for Antigua. In a growing gale, seven days out, his vessel was badly holed by an unknown object at night storm, and became swamped, although it did not sink outright due to watertight compartments Callahan had designed into the boat. In his book, Callahan writes that he suspects the damage occurred from a collision with a whale.

Unable to stay aboard "Napoleon Solo" due to it being full of water and getting overwhelmed by breaking seas, he escaped into a six-person Avon inflatable life raft, measuring about six feet across. He stood off in the raft, but managed to get back aboard several times to dive below and retrieve a piece of cushion, a sleeping bag, and an emergency kit containing, among other things, some food, navigation charts, a short spear gun, flares, torch, solar stills for producing rainwater and a copy of Sea Survival, a survival manual written by Dougal Robertson, a fellow ocean survivor. Before dawn, a big breaking sea parted the life raft from "Napoleon Solo", and Callahan drifted away...

76 days later, he was picked up by fishermen just off the shore of Marie Gallante in the West Indies.

His book's a good read, by the way.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by DJBrookster

As skipper you are responsible for the safety of your crew. Does "Lifeboats are too dear" sound justifiable? As I'm sure it would not stand up as reasonable care should you survive and your crew not in a court of law.

If you stand up in court (or simply talk to anyone Police / Lawyer / Priest ) and say that - you deserve to get locked up

Me would be talking about the safety briefing, that included the lack of liferaft - and that all agreed it wasn't necessary..........even though I offered to go and buy one, but would delay the trip.

Ain't no one around to contradict

[wolfenzee]

The only time a "court of law" might have anything thing to do with it is when talking about commercial vessel requirements and the USCG....other wise if you can stand up than there is no need for a life raft.