GPS jamming in Flordia

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I've never seen it in Notices to Mariners.

Look here: https://navcen.uscg.gov/?Do=gpsreportstatus

The reports pertinent to the topic here are listed as: "Type, Marine" and "Cause, Unknown Interference."

Some of the nation-state caused disruptions are DoD Classified. You will only see civilian user reports without DoD confirmation.

It's a "protect sources and methods" thing.


Those of you experiencing problems near the UN building (noted above) may want to report it here: https://navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=gpsUserInput

[Cpt Pat]

I mentioned dire consequences if GPS timing was lost. GPS is used for more than just positioning information. Here's what happened when the US Air Force made a mistake causing only a 13 microsecond error: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/06/what-happens-if-gps-fails/486824/

[Hardhead]

Here's an interesting article - https://www.csoonline.com/article/33...gainst-it.html


Between satellites handling all banking and credit card transactions - and this GPS issue - the veneer of technology seems pretty thin in the wrong circumstances.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

I think that's a solid idea. We've all become so reliant on GPS - for a lot of people there's no real plan B for offshore navigation. Given how easy it appears to be to jam and goof with GPS signals - it might be something ner'dowells can be doing more easily in the future.

Anyone with basic navigation and pilotage skills doesn't need a Plan B. GPS is not mission critical unless you simply don't know how to work without it.


GPS going out is not on my list of things to worry about.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

Look here: https://navcen.uscg.gov/?Do=gpsreportstatus

The reports pertinent to the topic here are listed as: "Type, Marine" and "Cause, Unknown Interference."

Some of the nation-state caused disruptions are DoD Classified. You will only see civilian user reports without DoD confirmation.

It's a "protect sources and methods" thing.


Those of you experiencing problems near the UN building (noted above) may want to report it here: https://navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=gpsUserInput

My biggest impression reading through those reports is how much it must have to suck for those guys to actually investigate every "the UN is jamming my GPS" or "GPS must be down because my car gave me wrong directions to my friends house" complaint, which seem to make up a good chunk of them. Also interesting how many companies blame "the 'gubment" for issues that they know are their own product failures....and how many people lack the credulity to call them on it. Kind of reminds me of the denatured alcohol "ban" in California threads here!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Anyone with basic navigation and pilotage skills doesn't need a Plan B. GPS is not mission critical unless you simply don't know how to work without it.


GPS going out is not on my list of things to worry about.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Don’t know how real this is but it’s said there is GPS jamming going on in Flordia and surrounding areas. Anyone heard about this....... https://youtu.be/FYrVzehIG3M

Posted 6 days ago:
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...ence-says-faa/

[garychurch]

Virtually everyone knows about the vulnerability of GNSS (GPS (US), GLONASS (Russia), GALILEO (EU), BIEDOU (China), QZSS (Japan) and NAVIC (India)) to jamming (overpowering its very weak signal), spoofing (giving wrong locations), solar flares, mechanical/electronic malfunctions and human error.

Plan B’s are always good. Interestingly the father of GPS (Per Enge of Standford) endorses a terrestrial backup to GPS called Enhanced Loran. Although the US government has been aware of GPS vulnerability they have done little to support a backup for this critical infrastructure.

Biggest risk in GPS failure is the timing signal as opposed to its positional information, which is still pretty damn important.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

The question is how much to actually need to know your position to the nearest couple feet when navigating a sub 10' draft vessel at 6 knots offshore? I could be pretty much anywhere in the world, lose all electronic nav, and still safely find the nearest continent at which point I could sail either direction safely offshore until I found a landfall lighthouse and from there safely navigate to a harbor.

It is hard to miss a continent.

I suggest it is good seamanship to provision for things going wrong, not for everything going right.

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

The biggest impact would be with the loss of timing signals that are critical to services like cell phones, trunked radio systems (emergency services), stock trades, Internet routing, and litany of automated plant processes (like food processing) that depend entirely on GPS for timing and switching, and that have cheap internal clocks that will drift out of tolerance in mere hours.

Poor planning. Where do you think GPS gets time? It comes from NIST. You can get it yourself from WWV. I once worked on timing that did use GPS with failover to WWV with time-of-flight corrections.

For our use case that makes celestial navigation more accurate as time errors are the second greatest cause of error.

[gatorman49]

I’m on iPhone and couldn’t read every post due to UN pissing contest. )). If I missed it, there is FAA bulletin on this subject that states “50’ above surface of land/water.” The bulletin shows a massive area that is affected to include most of SE US and Caribbean. And yes, there is GPS jamming along with cell jamming by USG in US. Try using your cell phone near a presidential motorcade.

[Chotu]

All I can say is the next time you pass through the United Nations exclusion zone in the East River, take a close look. Take a close look at your screen. You will lose your fix. Just for a short time.

Not going to be arguing with people who don’t know anything about it and are just commenting off the top of their head. People with no experience whatsoever.

There are also patrol boats out there waiting for you most of the time as well. You would think as often as that river is used, somebody from this forum would have gone through there before. Definitely the guy putting up the biggest stink has never been anywhere near it. Because he has no idea what he’s talking about.

The entire thing is just a matter of fact. Has nothing to do with conspiracy theories or anything else. They don’t want you having perfect positioning very close to that building for some reason. Nor will they let you approach it at all from the water. If you’ve never been, you don’t know what you’re talking about End of story.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Chotu

All I can say is the next time you pass through the United Nations exclusion zone in the East River, take a close look.

Can we get a little clarity on this terminology? I pulled up an actual USCG bulletin and there is no reference to 'exclusion zone' - instead they refer to multiple security zones, two of which apparently have different rules at different times.

(see https://coastguardnews.com/coast-gua...ly/2017/09/15/)

Could this poster clarify which security zone he was in and then describe what happened? From my reading of the rules, s/he could not have been in security zone 1, as it seems to be closed to boaters at all times.

[lestersails]

Here is a crummy screen shot of the part of the map from a USCG bulletin:

https://images.marinelink.com/images...uscg-64650.jpg

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Can we get a little clarity on this terminology? I pulled up an actual USCG bulletin and there is no reference to 'exclusion zone' - instead they refer to multiple security zones, two of which apparently have different rules at different times.

(see https://coastguardnews.com/coast-gua...ly/2017/09/15/)

Could this poster clarify which security zone he was in and then describe what happened? From my reading of the rules, s/he could not have been in security zone 1, as it seems to be closed to boaters at all times.

It really depends on who is in town. Sometimes they close the entire East River to all traffic. So you cannot transit. It is a very variable type of situation.

And by exclusion zone, I mean try to bring your boat close to the UN building in the East River and see what happens. LOL the patrol boats with the big machine guns will stop you. Same as approaching a military base.

You’re much better off staying on the eastern side of the East River in that particular area. They are on some serious patrol right there.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Chotu

It really depends on who is in town. Sometimes they close the entire East River to all traffic. So you cannot transit. It is a very variable type of situation.

And by exclusion zone, I mean try to bring your boat close to the UN building in the East River and see what happens. LOL the patrol boats with the big machine guns will stop you. Same as approaching a military base.

You’re much better off staying on the eastern side of the East River in that particular area. They are on some serious patrol right there.

Sorry if i was not clear - you made the statement that when you were in the "exclusion zone" that you lost GPS. I am asking you to be precise about where you were when this happened to you - security zone 1, 2, or 3?