Videos of Anchors Setting

[Panope]

Thanks for the kind words, DDM.

Unfortunately, a comprehensive rating system is not available. A hypothetical spreadsheet would need to include:

-Setting/resetting performance in perhaps dozens of bottom types (I have thoroughly explored only 2).
-Holding power in each bottom type (I can only measure the smallest anchors)
-Structural strength. (I lack sacrificial anchors)
-Corrosion prevention. (This would take years and more sacrificial anchors).
-Ability to fit and self launch on numerous boat types. (I have tested bow anchors on only 1 boat).
-Price.
-Availability by region.
-Warranty.
(Above data should be gathered for several sizes of each anchor model).

Sorry I could not be of more assistance,

Steve

[Panope]

Originally Posted by DDM

........will live in the Med..........

DDM,

In case you have not seen it, check out Noelex's "Photos of Anchors Setting" thread. This series takes place almost entirely in the Mediterranean.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-126073.html

Steve

[DDM]

Hi Steve,

I appreciate your take on my request for 'structured data'. I understand that the "N" in the test examples is way too low to make any statistical significance, and the diversity of explored variables is very narrow.

Still, I feel the data you collected and your experience (and by now a well developed gut feel) is a few orders of magnitude higher in value than all the online research I (and everyone else) could ever do. Not just that, it's also way more significant than any comparison ever done by a magazine or made public by a (biased) manufacturer. I'd rather take my bet based on your gut feel than on the (also not significant) opinion I'd form by browsing the internet any longer. (and I spent already many many many hours on the subject)

After going through quite a few pages of the "photos of anchors setting" thread, and some more of your video's, I think I now know what I really would like to hear from you;

I think all modern anchors are good candidates when it comes to initial setting and holding power, provided the circumstances are fair.
But, when the direction of wind changes during the night, these characteristics are not that important. Much more vital for a good sleep (not triggering one of the redundant anchoring alarms) is how well the anchor "behaves" - coming (or not) undone and ability to properly reset itself (by not keeping a boatload of sand stuck to the "scoop" as standard).

Could you, from all the good anchors, maybe provide a shortlist of your gut feel about the "behavior" between the best, during the testing conditions and variables you had? I'm not talking about significant scientific data, more so a request to hear about how you feel about the top of the range regarding these two properties (coming undone and resetting after reversal)

[Jim Cate]

DDM. pardon me for butting in here, but I think that you are asking Steve an unreasonable question. Steve is operating in a highly competitive and aggressive market place, and he has been really scrupulous in avoiding any signs of bias entering his discussions. I salute this!

Were he to accede to your request and post a "gut feeling" his impartiality would be compromised and his relationship to the various manufacturers and vendors damaged.

We all want him to be able to continue with his useful series of tests, as I am sure you do as well. Please don't badger him into an awkward position.

And Steve, if I have misrepresented your position, feel free to body slam me to the deck!

Jim

[Uncle Bob]

DDM, somewhere in the video collection Steve summarized those done to date and indicated which he would select and why as primary anchors for his OWN boat, can't remember the video number and don't know if it is still there.
Perhaps a thorough look may reveal.

[DDM]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

DDM, somewhere in the video collection Steve summarized those done to date and indicated which he would select and why as primary anchors for his OWN boat, can't remember the video number and don't know if it is still there.
Perhaps a thorough look may reveal.

You don't mean #56, right? (Spade because boat is curvy too)

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by DDM

You don't mean #56, right? (Spade because boat is curvy too)

I think that may be it!

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by DDM

You don't mean #56, right? (Spade because boat is curvy too)

I have a Spade. My boats not curvy. Great anchor. I'd say best anchor I've ever owned...

[Panope]

Originally Posted by DDM

Hi Steve,

I appreciate your take on my request for 'structured data'. I understand that the "N" in the test examples is way too low to make any statistical significance, and the diversity of explored variables is very narrow.

Still, I feel the data you collected and your experience (and by now a well developed gut feel) is a few orders of magnitude higher in value than all the online research I (and everyone else) could ever do. Not just that, it's also way more significant than any comparison ever done by a magazine or made public by a (biased) manufacturer. I'd rather take my bet based on your gut feel than on the (also not significant) opinion I'd form by browsing the internet any longer. (and I spent already many many many hours on the subject)

After going through quite a few pages of the "photos of anchors setting" thread, and some more of your video's, I think I now know what I really would like to hear from you;

I think all modern anchors are good candidates when it comes to initial setting and holding power, provided the circumstances are fair.
But, when the direction of wind changes during the night, these characteristics are not that important. Much more vital for a good sleep (not triggering one of the redundant anchoring alarms) is how well the anchor "behaves" - coming (or not) undone and ability to properly reset itself (by not keeping a boatload of sand stuck to the "scoop" as standard).

Could you, from all the good anchors, maybe provide a shortlist of your gut feel about the "behavior" between the best, during the testing conditions and variables you had? I'm not talking about significant scientific data, more so a request to hear about how you feel about the top of the range regarding these two properties (coming undone and resetting after reversal)

DDM,

Jim Cate's words are correct about the "gut feel" thing. It is a constant struggle of mine to silence my (as a human being) inclination to make predictions, generalizations, and other non-scientific comments.

Furthermore, an even greater reason for me to not answer your question is that I do not have the answer! It seems that the more testing I do, the holy grail of anchor knowledge drifts further from my grasp.

For example, my early testing of a 45 lb. Mantus M1 led me to conclude that it was hands down the fastest and most reliable at setting/resetting (in the seabeds in which I test). I have since tested a 13 lb. version and it showed clear evidence of clogging and problems resetting. If someone needs a 25 or 35 lb version (appropriate for your 8.3 meter boat) what would I tell them?

Cheers,

Steve

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

I have a Spade. My boats not curvy. Great anchor. I'd say best anchor I've ever owned...

The 44 Spade performed perfectly in all my tests and general use. Wonderful anchor.

That said, after fairly light use my 44 pound Spade has formed some rust or corrosion on the exterior of the anchor, the interface of the lead and steel, and in the crevice between the (removable) shank and fluke. I can only imagine what is going on deep inside the hollow shank.

Also, the 33 pound Spade (acquired 2nd hand) appeared to have original galvanizing , but was found to be SHORT about 5 pounds of lead ballast (I first noticed this because the anchor would not self right on a flat surface). I have no Idea if it was the manufacturer or some other person that was responsible, but the bottom line is that the defect went unnoticed. Anchors with fully encapsulated lead or NO lead will avoid this issue all together.

There is no anchor panacea (crap, was that a generalization? )

Steve

[JPA Cate]

Truth sometimes hurts.

Ann

[Sos]

As Steve has already said check out Noelex's "Photos of Anchors Setting" thread. This shows a lot of anchors re-setting(or not!) in different substrates.

The videos and pictures of both threads are invaluable and between them I made my decision and spent my hard earned cash!

[malbert73]

If I were to summarize MY impressions from the threads and tests by Noelex and Panope:
in “cruising boat sizes (45 lbs up), Spade and Mantus come out ahead for a number of reasons but only by a hair width.
If you will be anchoring in muddier, softer substrates, Mantus due to larger surface area.
If you will be doing more rocky/firm the spade may be stronger and do better.
Both will excel in sand and general anchoring.


My personal experience of Rocna is that it’s inferior to Mantus in softer/muddier (probably due to heavier shank and smaller rollbar) and I assume same would hold true for Manson. But if you sail on more rugged and firm bottomed areas like the Cates, maybe the slightly smaller shank of Mantus would be at risk of bending if anchor got wedged?

(Biased owner here: the Mantus is brilliant for me. Currently Chesapeake Bay and East coast US)

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by malbert73

If I were to summarize MY impressions from the threads and tests by Noelex and Panope:
in “cruising boat sizes (45 lbs up), Spade and Mantus come out ahead for a number of reasons but only by a hair width.
If you will be anchoring in muddier, softer substrates, Mantus due to larger surface area.
If you will be doing more rocky/firm the spade may be stronger and do better.
Both will excel in sand and general anchoring.


My personal experience of Rocna is that it’s inferior to Mantus in softer/muddier (probably due to heavier shank and smaller rollbar) and I assume same would hold true for Manson. But if you sail on more rugged and firm bottomed areas like the Cates, maybe the slightly smaller shank of Mantus would be at risk of bending if anchor got wedged?

(Biased owner here: the Mantus is brilliant for me. Currently Chesapeake Bay and East coast US)

As another anchor in that family, the Vulcan has even slightly larger fluke area per pound than the Mantus (or the regular Rocna), and definitely more than the Spade. I don't think anyone has compared one back to back against a Spade, however.

[DDM]

It's too bad there isn't much data online about the Ultra, besides some mud sticking to it more easily than to a galvanized spade. I'm leaning towards a stainless steel anchor, either spade or ultra, well because pretty Mobo with all other stuff in stainless too, and because they both promise to "rotate somewhat under the soil" when 180degree reversing versus completely needing to reset. At least that's also what I sort of see in the videos, albeit very cloudy?
(I'm not that worried about galvanic oxidation)