Minimal chain for my spare anchor?

[JPA Cate]

On the charts, look at the bottoms where you will be anchoring in Maine. I've not been there, myself, but I am told they are rocky. This is one of the bottoms that the old fishermen anchors will sometime hold in. There are some of those bottoms here in Tasmania, and we have foregone their pleasures, due to the lack of that kind of anchor.

Ann

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Most of the big kids have all chain.

... Not so much on the secondary / kedge, which is the focus here.



Primary, yes, chain has the advantage.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by argold57

True but I said I’m cruising Maine to Bahamas next year and this is what the post is about. I have weekend/vacation sailed the Bay for a decade with the “toy” anchor the boat came with but now I hope to get out with the big kids!

And I'm not sure that changes the advice. You still need the secondary to have similar hold to the primary, and you won't want to be dinghying out and all-chain secondary rode.


Yes, the anchors you have are not what you want. I think there is universal agreement there. In fact, you have been fortunate not to drag the 25-pound anchors on the Chesapeake. I guess you have been fortunate not to get hammered by a nasty thunderstorm while on poor holding ground. I have a 25-pound Delta on my 34-foot cat. Not good.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Don C L

If you know for sure you will be pulled in one direction then 2 out in a V might be fine, as long as they are equally robust. Chances are only one will be holding the load from time to time, so the other is useful as a back-up. But if the boat swings 180 degrees things could get complicated at a time when you really want things to be simple. I see many folks suggest the Fortress as the second anchor and that's probably fine. But at the risk of being annoyingly repetitive to those who follow the anchor threads, don't rule out the Danforth Hi-Tensiles IMHO. For your boat the 20HT could hold you through a very good breeze. I believe Steve on Panope found the Hi-tensiles the superior choice for pulling one direction in sand and mud. (Correct me if I am wrong Steve!)

I found that Danforth Hi-Tensile was better than a Fortress of equal DIMENSIONS. However, the Fortress is better than a Danforth of equal WEIGHT.

Steve

[KP44]

Originally Posted by argold57

I would really not want to go to a 44 lb anchor as a second. I cannot imagine trying to lift it from below my V-berth even if it would fit so they will not be matching.

Keep in mind that any anchor you carry needs to be able to fill in as primary anchor. There is no reason to carry around an anchor that cannot be used and trusted.
When you design and buy your spare anchor and rode, think of it as a working primary.. That is what it becomes when your primary is disabled or lost. A crew member's ability to carry an anchor or chain might not be relevant to the most important system on your ship.

[Scubaseas]

Loose the cqr. Get a Fortress or big Danforth HT for soft mud Fortress will have a spec for the length if chain. If I recall a FX23 uses 10 or 12' of chain.

Everyone will have an opinion on your primary/ bower. If cruising Maine or where there is kelp I would avoid getting a roll bar anchor. Spade has worked well for me and I almost put a Sarca Excel on my new to me boat as the bower. YMMV. A hinged fluke like Fortress or Danforth will also work well in sand as long as you don't get a big wind shift. For the Bahamas one off the bow, one off the stern works very well for a Bahamian moor.

Look at sv panope anchor reviews on YouTube. It may help your decision.

[Chris Cringle]

Ground tackle is no place to economize. Instead of asking, what is the minimum I can get by with?", you should be asking, "What is the most I can reasonably carry?" When the **** hits the fan, you will wish you had heavier and longer, but then it will be too late. Back in the day, I ran a rescue boat for a government agency. Once we responded to a distress call where a disabled boat was rapidly drifting onto a surf battered, rocky coast. We got there in time and towed the boat to safety. Later we asked the operator of the boat (I refuse to call him "captain") why he didn't carry an anchor. "Oh, I have an anchor" he said, "But it is too small to hold my boat."🙄

[dougweibel]

Lots of opinions on anchoring. I'll leave a suggestion based more on logistics. Sailing Maine to the Caribbean is a big step up from the Chesapeake, but it is not like you are setting off on a circumnavigation. Consider your secondary anchor as an anchor for use when using two anchors or as a TEMPORARY primary anchor. There is no need for the secondary anchor to have all chain or to be the ideal primary anchor. If you loose your primary you can use the secondary on a temporary basis. If you have some misfortune with your primary you will be able to source additional chain or an anchor if necessary.

[Rumrace]

I boat in the Great Lakes pretty shallow anchoring and no tide.
I run 2 twin anchors both with 35’ of chain and whips. My boat which is a touch heavier than your never picks my chains up because it’s already bounced of the partner anchor. I’ve watch it in scuba gear working perfect. A took photos of piles of chain on top of anchors not set.
Tides I’m a idiot sorry

[MJH]

Originally Posted by argold57

My Bavaria 38 came with a #22 CQR spare anchor and 300 ft of rope rode stored under the V-berth. It has no chain.

The primary anchor is a #22 delta with all chain which I certainly plan to upsize. I have been in the Chesapeake, mostly weekending, and have never had to deploy a second anchor.

I plan to cruise up to Maine then down to the Caribbean next year and was wondering how much chain I should have for the spare anchor? My wife is small and cannot lift much and I am hoping to minimize the weight of chain. I'm hoping to store it in a small sturdy bucket but not have to lift it out on a halyard! Thanks in advance.

Looking at the last (2015-2016) West Marine catalog both your anchors are undersized for your 38' sailboat. Primary anchor: Based on the general bottom conditions you expect select the appropriate TYPE of anchor for those conditions and size it appropriately...doing the research yourself will give you confidence in your anchors rather than somebody else's opinion.

Your secondary anchor should be of a different TYPE to give you more choice when necessary. Not sure why you are concerned about your small wife handling the secondary anchor as YOU should be the one handling it when it is necessary to use it.

As far as chain length is concerned I would add chain length equal to the boat's length (38' in your case) and of the appropriate size. I would also use the largest shackles that fit the chain and mouse it with stainless steel wire. If you are concerned about chain weight, selecting high test chain will save some weight but will cost more.

That said, not sure if your boat has dual anchor rollers on the bow. If not you will have to find a place to store the secondary; some mount them on the stern where they are immediately ready for use but much depends on your expected use.

Regarding anchor rollers: Insure that the anchor's "shank" length will fit your bow rollers before purchase. Some rollers are made for specific anchor TYPES.

Good Luck.

[sailingharry]

We spent last summer cruising from the Chesapeake to New Brunswick and back. 110 days, about half of those on our own anchor. So my experience may be somewhat relevant.

Our boat is at 43 ft sailboat displacing about 22,000 lb. Our primary anchor is a 55 lb Rock with 75 ft of 5/16 g4. Our secondary is a 66 lb Bruce with 60 ft of chain and 240 ft of rope. I have never actually said the secondary!

The chain is excessive, as is the general weight in the bow. We unloaded it on the dock this spring for an inspection, and the bow lifted almost 4 in! It's what came with the boat, and I'm not going to change it anytime soon, but I'm not sure it's the right mix. I think the right answer is 100 or maybe 150 ft backed up by another 200 ft of 8 plait nylon. The secondary with 60 ft of chain and 240 ft of nylon is probably about right as it is.

The 66 lb Bruce is probably overkill but was given to me and there it sits. I will agree that the Rocna is a better anchor, but I don't agree with the philosophy that all safety equipment must be the absolute best possible. There has to be a balance between good enough and $$$$.

You need a lot of rode in Maine and the Bay of Fundy. We have put out over 200 ft on several occasions. If you come in at low tide and anchor in 10 ft of water, you really need 200 ft of rode. 10 ft of water, 30 ft of tide times 5 to 1 is 200 ft.

All chain definitely has an advantage when it comes to handling. While a windlass can do rope and can handle the splice, it does exceptionally well on straight chain. And the chain packs into the anchor locker quite well.

I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit that our 55 lb Rocna tended to make us a little sloppy. That anchor grabs and stays stuck! It held us in many bottoms and in a variety of weather. Depending upon the anchorage and the forecast, we would often use closer to 4x scope.

We did find use for a small Danforth anchor. We actually used the 6 lb anchor in the dinghy. In a couple of anchorages, with no wind and a slight swell coming in from the sea, the boat would lie beam to the seas and roll. The six pound anchor deployed a Stern would hold us bow into the rollers and sleeping is much better. The classic solution of a line from the stern out to the anchor rode to twist you in the wind only works if there is wind.

Harry

[Timryl]

My suggestion is follow all the previous advice -
Better primary (I love my 40kg Rocna with 5/16 chromox chain)
A boat length of chain - 40ft to match windlass
A stronger wife?? Or better and cheaper option, put her on the helm!

[David Mathis]

You indicated using a Delta as a primary. I've found the Delta to be an excellent choice for gravel or cobble but poor for soft bottoms. My primary anchor is a 20k Bruce with about 40' of 5/16 chain. The only issue with this anchor was penetrating in hard packed sand. It would drag for a considerable distance before setting then the holding was questionable. This was solved by sharpening the leading edge with an angle grinder then spraying it with cold galvanize. It penetrates and holds great and has buried itself deep in a couple storms that would have dragged it before the sharpening. As to the secondary anchor, we use it as a spare rather than a secondary. It's about a 20-25 pound Danforth with about 12' of 5/16 chain. For beach duty, after setting the main and backing into about 5' of water, we have a 13 pound Danforth with about 6' of 1/4" chain that we use to hold the stern toward the beach.

I've never owned a CQR but understand that they need a lot of heavy chain to be effective. You're probably better to dump the CQR and get a modern Ultra, Mantus, Spade, Vulcan, Rocna, or any of the new designs then get chain about the length of your boat.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Timryl

A boat length of chain - 40ft to match windlass

I've never understood specifying lengths in terms of boat lengths. Why does a 60 ft boat need twice as much chain as the 30 ft boat anchored next to him? It should be a function of bottom type and water depth, without regard to the length of the connected boat.

Similarly, dock lines are a function of spacing between pilings, not a function of both length, and yet spring and breast lines are often recommended as a function of both length.

[argold57]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Most of the big kids have all chain.

I do have 300' of chain on my primary.

So Yesterday I replaced my primary with a Rocna 20 (44 lb) (Well, almost, I still need to extend the bow roller)

I looked at Fortress for a new second anchor, but I did not really want to spend the money on a second anchor when I have the old Primary and the CQR (which is now a garden decoration). So now I have the Delta #22 as my second anchor, 100 ft of rope and no room anywhere but under the V-berth to stow it. I have not bought chain for the second anchor yet but I'm thinking 40' will be the best amount.

The Rocna has a hole for a Tandem anchor just above the fluke. I had an idea for rigging tandom but not sure if it will help: Put my Delta #22 on the end of the chain and put out a scope of 2, then attach the Rocna to the chain at both the shaft end and the tandem attach point, then put out another 5 times the depth. The #22 delta will have a scope of 7 and the #44 will have a scope of 5. Will the combination give me extra holding power even though they are not matched?