How'd You Pick Your Anchor ?

[Blue Stocking]

My 35lb CQR copy holds 12 tons in 40 knots on my beautiful white sand bottoms. (Mods-- not a tourism commercial for Bermuda )

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Pound for pound the Delta will hold better than a CQR but more importantly it sets-point down every time, so if you can penetrate the bottom you'll get a reliable set... known to be an "iffy" issue for the CQR.

If equal size you should consider switching your Delta to primary role, IMHO.

I agree overall and "planned" numerous times to switch them out. But just haven't had enough problems to drive the issue. The only times my CQR was a problem it was probably lack of scope when the wind picked up. And both those times the bottom as kind of rocky and I think the CQR is stronger construction for that so it's a wash. But in the end there's no best anchor, just a best for the bottom you happen to be anchored in that day.

If the anchor held your boat that day; it was the BEST!

[s/vPainkiller]

This is my first post in an anchor thread, so be gentle with me! My take is a little different, so I'd be interested in what folks think.

My anchors came with the boat, 40' 20K lbs, which we bought a few months ago with plans to actively cruise beginning this fall. I have a 45 lb CQR which I believe was the PO's primary and a 45 lb Delta which seems to have not been used much. Both of these seem to be adequately sized for light to average coastal cruising type work, but undersized/outdated (IMO) for our plans that involve living on the hook. Primary rode is 70 feet chain plus nylon rode. I don't have any immediate plans to change the primary rode.

In order to sleep better at night, I figure that I need a newer/bigger anchor. Would I like a 30kg Rocna or Manson? Yes. However with everything else I need to buy to finish outfitting the boat for cruising, that is not in the budget this year. So I go with plan B which is to buy the biggest affordable hunk of metal I can hang on the bow. I found a 30kg Lewmar Claw/Bruce that has never seen water on craigslist for $75. It fits on the bow roller, so I jump on it. I plan to use the Bruce as the primary and Delta as the backup, both mounted on the bow roller if I can get them play together. As an aside, we got hit by lightning last month and are currently stuck at the dock, so I haven't used the Bruce at all yet.

Now here's my question, which I haven't really seen addressed in these threads. Maybe the data is out there and I just haven't seen it. I get that a Rocna or Manson has better holding power, pound for pound. But is a larger Bruce up to the level of a smaller Delta or newer design anchor? Would I still be better off using the 45 Delta vs. the 66 lb Bruce as my primary anchor?

Scott

[rickf]

My take:
cruised over 5 years on a CQR and only dragged a couple times, and only a short distance. Now have a spade, it appears to work well but make sure to use en ough scope read 5-1.
Also have a bruce knock off for a secondary which I use in soft mud.
the CQR had a real long shank which I think helps. I had the 20KG for a
38 ft boat with 3/8 BBB chain too. heavy gear.
Never had a delta, but others on the ICW talked about it not holding that
good in soft mud. long time cruisers liked it though because of $$$.
I picked the spade somechat on recomedations for the med, and it was
a bit cheaper than the CQR. But, had a hard time deciding.
Rickf

[shipofools]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I will make a change if this boat is the ONE, but for now my CQR is as big as I can handle and works fine in the NE.

I think Don hit's on the key point when he mentions location.

I always ask people in the area, what anchors are working best in the conditions of that specific region/location. An anchor that works great in muck, might not hold so great in a seagrass area.

My view is to have a few anchors, and deploy based on the location, and that is how I made my purchase decision.

Cheers

[KittiwakeCD28]

How did I pick my anchor? I asked the owners of the same vessel (Cape Dory 28) what they used, and described where I would be anchoring most of the time. Received a number of good replies (about 10), and used their info to make selection for the first anchor, a CQR, 5 years ago. It has worked well in 5 yrs of traveling back and forth between the Chesapeake and Keys, and to Dry Tortugas and Everglades, only dragging in spots known to be problematic. I plan things not to anchor in these places on future travels...

[Sailabel]

How did we choose our current anchors?? Our boat came with, and previously circumnavigated with a CQR and Bruce. When it came time to take off for our 'adventure', I wasn't comfortable with the size of each anchor... they were marginal at best. So we read reviews, talked with other long distance sailors, read blogs of those 'out there', and listened to advice of a well noted sailor. Then. when our list was whittled down, we looked at both cost and what would fit on our rollers (not that we wouldn't modify the system for a better anchor). We were convinced that a 'new generation anchor' would be best for us as a primary; and cost-wise, a mid-generation (??) Delta as our secondary bow anchor. A Spade was our choice of the primary... but it was lost on our first leg. Costwise, a 55 Delta became the primary... not our first choice, but practical. For our stern anchor, we wanted an anchor that could be easily used as a kedge and had excellent mud/sand holding (something better than the deltas). A fortress won that decision, hands down.

One could argue whether or not we have the 'best' anchors for a circumnavigation... but that's how we came to our decisions. Which was the question. If we need to replace a primary anchor, it'll most likely be a rocna or manson supreme, along with some bowsprit modifications.

Steve

[estarzinger]

What process did we use to pick our anchors . . . that is a slightly different question:

First boat (shannon 37): we just started with the anchors that were aboard when we bought her - a 35lb CQR primary and secondary 20lb danforth.

We had trouble with the CQR anchor (Danforth worked well) and decided to get a bigger primary anchor and asked Steve Dashew what to get and he recommended a Bruce 44lb. Which we got and never dragged again.

Second boat (custom 47): We started off with what worked on the first boat, just upsized to the new boat - so a Bruce 110lb and 44lb danforth. They worked perfectly, but the Bruce was broken when we got in re-galvanized in Chile.

To replace the Bruce, we bought 4 different anchors and tried them all cruising back and forth in the Beagle channel. We gave one away (A local copy of the Manson) because it did not work quite as well as the others, we sold one because while it worked well it did not stow well (a Manson Supreme) and we kept two (a Manson Ray and a Rocna) for further experience in S. Georgia. Our experience in south Georgia was more positive with the Ray than the Rocna (but the anchoring bottoms/situation in south georgia are peculiar), so in theory I would like to have the Ray on my bow as primary but the Rocna does not stow below very well while the Ray stows well . . . so right now we have the rocna on our bow. If we have any further trouble with the rocna I will give it away and put the ray on the bow, if we have no further trouble with the rocna I will leave things as they are.

[Kettlewell]

I started out on small boats using Danforths which were the cheapest decent anchor and learned that they are excellent under straight line pulls, but not so hot if your boat swings around the anchor. So, I started doing lots of two anchor sets and got good at that. When I got a bigger boat the only real alternatives were CQRs and Bruce, and the people I read in those days (Hiscock, Roth, et. al) were pretty much CQR people so I got one. Big steel Danforths are sort of an option, though they get very awkward to handle and store. CQRs have bullet proof construction and will hold well if you can get one properly dug in. I've been up and down the East Coast and to the Bahamas a bunch of times, anchored in a few hurricanes, and the CQR served me well, though at times it is hard to dig in. Along the way I also acquired a couple of Fortress anchors, which IMHO are the best designed and built of the many Danforth knock offs. They are still the best anchor to take out as a kedge, and once dug in nothing will pull them out period. It took several hours to dig out my Fortresses after Hurricane Bob. Judging from the mud on the chain they were probably embedded 6 feet down by that point. They also make a great second anchor when you know the direction of pull won't change. Before my last big trip I wanted to try a Rocna or a Spade, but I could obtain neither (they were both sold out) prior to leaving, so I decided to try a Bulwagga (got good reviews in Practical Sailor and from a friend), which is now my primary. It is a super anchor in weed, bites in very quickly, and has never failed us. During one 57-knot blow in the San Blas we were in a tiny anchorage with reefs all around limiting our scope and we rode it out on only 3.2:1 scope while almost every other boat in the anchorage dragged on their CQRs and Bruces. I've been dragged or had near misses so many times from folks with Bruces that I now consider them a hazard and I watch for them when someone new comes in to anchor near me. Plus, they always rate near the bottom in any anchor holding power tests. If you have a Bruce you need to get it double sized for any effectiveness. Next time around I'll probably get a Manson or Rocna because they test so well and people I talk to love them. In observing people anchoring, they seem to work well too.

What I think is truly amazing is what a great design the Danforth is considering how long ago it was created (patented 1941). IMHO it still provides the greatest holding power per pound, especially in the aluminum versions. You just have to use them properly.

[svtadpole]

No single anchor works well for all types of seabed ... best option is to carry at least 3 different types in the largest sizes that you can afford & are able to stow/handle ...
Also worth noting that it is the first 15 to 20ft of chain attached to the anchor which plays an important role by keeping the shank weighed down on the sea floor ... whether you use an all-chain or nylon rode this first length of chain needs to be oversize & as heavy as possible ...

[Bash]

Originally Posted by kb79

I'm curious as to why so few people seem to have "new age" anchors. My "survey" (read: walk down the dock from the gate to our slip) indicates a few surprising things - in my mind anyway - about people's primary anchors:

The trouble may have been with your survey. If there is a high percentage of older boats in the marina in which you took your walk, you'll probably find a high percentage of older-style anchors. I keep my boat in a dock with a lot of new boats--with 50' slips on one side of the fairway and 60' slips on the other side--and there are a lot of 2nd-generation anchors on these boats, especially the sailboats. The exceptions among the newer boats tend to fall into two categories: boats with polished stainless anchors (that tend to get very little use); boats with bow rollers that won't accommodate the "roll bar" on the newer anchors.

[foggysail]

I went with an 88# Delta for under $600 and under what a 55# Racna's cost. Pound for pound, a Rocna might offer better holding protection but 88# to 55# is not a pound for pound comparison. I believe the 88# Delat will surpase the performance of lighter weight steel/cast iron anchors of any type.

Physical size and weight might be a concern to some but the 88# fit on my boat, barely but it fit. Further, my Maxwell 24vdc HWC2200 has more than enough pulling power to lift the anchor along with my 5/16" chain with ease.

Foggy

[onestepcsy37]

choose your anchor based on the type of bottom you will be anchoring in. if you will anchor in different kinds of bottoms then get different kinds of anchors. take with a grain of salt the boats you see at a dock. many of them have never left the dock, much less anchored somewhere.

i've always been a 'bigger is better' anchor guy. my boat (37', 20k lbs) came with a 45lb cqr and a 35 lb danforth. but i wanted bigger so i bought a simpson lawrence claw (bruce copy) at 66 lbs. going up and down the icw it held perfectly except in one spot in st augustine. loved it. then i took it to the bahamas where it nearly put me on the rocks in the middle of the night. wouldn't hold in another spot the next day. so i switched out to my 45lb cqr and had no further troubles. the cqr is a good anchor, and certainly the most ruggedly built - which probably accounts for why the genuine cqr is so expensive.

after a lot of research i decided the anchor for me was a galvanized spade. unfortunately they are not easy to find anymore. so i bought a 45 lb manson supreme which i've used the past year in florida with great success. the problem with the manson (and the rocna and probably the spade) is that they don't get along very well with other anchors, if you have a two anchor bow setup like i do. i've managed to get the manson in a reasonably good position on the bow but not exactly what i would have liked. if i could do it over i think i would have bought the 55lb rocna because the shank is not as wide and i think it would have sat better in it's roller.

i also bought a nearly new 35lb hi tensile danforth as a second anchor which sits on the bow but i've never actually used it.

i'm now in the market for a third anchor to keep in the lazarette. thinking of a fortress because they fold up for stowage.

in the bahamas we saw lots of boats with delta anchors. but i think that it is popular partly because it works with an electric windlass very well. all of the bahamian fishermen use danforths.

by the way, get all chain rode, or at least a whole lot of chain. i'm at the point where i couldn't sleep at night if i was on a rope rode.

and 'rickf', who responded above, has been cruising with his wife on a heavy 38 foot sailboat for the past six years or so - all over the east coast, the caribbean, and now europe. his opinion counts with me....

[zeehag]

i watched the others anchor and ,as i was using danforth and hand raising this big toadwith all its chain, decided that for the weight, i could stay anchored better in our winters with a cqr s a primary. so i continue on with cqr as primary--and i want a real bruce, as i was advised by a dear friend i trust that they work well-now i covet a 20kg bruce for my formosa....i already have the 300 ft chain--i use 5/16--was told i could go up a size, even..LOL...and a 35 pound cqr--hvent had any problems in mud. have a huge danforth also--i use those as secondary anchors only. cqr does well on long term anchoring (more than 3 days) without self-release..they dig deeper when they try to drag--and , when set right, will hold, as i have observed, for weeks, despite the changes in wind and tide.

we found some places to "anchor" while on our near year of cruising gulf that were slick as swimming pools --these places were allegedly anchorages. there is not one anchor that will stick in a swimming pool. silt over shale is essentially a swimming pool bottom. newly dredged areas are slick as swimming pools also.
there is no anchor that works in those situations.

the danforths came with my boats. the cqrs i had to obtain from marine swap meets.
if ye are getting rid of an anchor because of a bit of rust, send it to me--i dont mind a bit of rust. adds to the character in ..oops, i mean ..of the boat..LOL

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by svtadpole

No single anchor works well for all types of seabed ... best option is to carry at least 3 different types in the largest sizes that you can afford & are able to stow/handle ...

We still see this argument presented over and over again huh.

What substantial experience do you have with each and every type of anchor, to qualify yourself to make this statement?

On the contrary I think you have a CQR or Danforth, and your sentiments are actually exactly representative of the flaws with those types. You simply don't know any better (no offense).

The fact is that several of the new generation anchors are entirely and inarguably superior to all old generation types, and that applies in all conceivable scenarios. In other words you do not need two types, the second to address the flaws of the first. (Is this why some carry 1 x CQR + 1 x Bruce + 1 x Danforth, sometimes all on the bow at once? because it seems bizarre otherwise - rhetorical question). Kiwi Roa carries only Rocnas and nothing else, and this reliance on a single type is a perfectly adequate solution for some of the most extreme places on the planet.

The only exceptions would be for practical reasons of stowage, convenience, weight, etc - i.e. I wouldn't claim it's silly to carry a Fortress as a secondary anchor.

Originally Posted by svtadpole

Also worth noting that it is the first 15 to 20ft of chain attached to the anchor which plays an important role by keeping the shank weighed down on the sea floor ... whether you use an all-chain or nylon rode this first length of chain needs to be oversize & as heavy as possible ...

This is also total nonsense. I'm sorry to seem harsh but if you're going to rehash such total misconceptions without so much as an "I think" or similar, then I don't think it's unreasonable.

If you've looked over some of the recent threads on this very forum you'd see the arguments played out and I'm loathe to repeat them. In summary it takes very little relative force to straighten chain [unless you're in very deep water with lots of chain] and your only hope is scope...

Here's some visual demonstration for those who figure theory or data is not to be trusted...

YouTube - Bruce Anchor SSetting In Hard Sand At 4:1 Scope

YouTube - Rocna Setting On Hard Sand At 4:1 Scope

The first is a Bruce, the second a Rocna, being set on hard sand at 4:1 scope.
If we're honest neither sets particularly well - the substrate isn't as wet as ideal and load is applied immediately - although the Rocna as expected does a lot better (as the guy points out, listen to the engine tone of the pull vehicle). In any case even without anything like secure sets and therefore relatively no resistance to speak of, I like these because they show how the chain goes almost completely straight. Sorry for the off-topic.