Docking lines, 3-strand vs braided

[fish53]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

My spring lines are dock lines. As are my breast lines.

That's right I forgot, heaving lines also.

[Capt. Hack]

I like 3 strand cause of the ease of use and price. I made all my lines long enough to go from the boat to the dock and back to the the boat. 35',when we cast off all crew are on the boat . Uncleat and pull the line in and your off. No one needs to try and hop on the boat. A lot safer

[CarinaPDX]

Quite a range of preferences here.

The first thing I note is that new line coming from the chandler is not like the line after a bit of use. Three-strand hardens and becomes stiff and difficult to handle and stow; it is very robust and does stretch well (while twisting and potentially hockling). It is also very easy to splice (all splices need to be done on new rope, except for masochists). Nothing wrong with 3-strand but it is too much of a PITA for me.

In the US nylon double braid is common. The double braid structure is the least stretchy. This rope remains very flexible in use, and thus pleasant to use and stow. While the outer braid is subject to chafe damage the inner braid can survive for many years. Between 3-strand and double braid I would choose the double braid, because life is too short for stiff rope...

In Europe it is difficult to impossible to find double braid nylon, but 8-plait nylon is readily available. In stretch it is between 3-strand and double braid, and of course doesn't twist. Flexibility, durability, and chafe resistance are also in-between. Some brands are woven loosely, which makes for an easier splice but does tend to catch on rough wood when new. With time 8-plait becomes smoother and harder while retaining flexibility. Splicing is not conceptually that difficult but the rope tightens and by the 4th row of tucks it can be hard work - the resulting square splice is a thing of beauty. 8-plait is my personal favorite; I bought a reel of 16mm about 15 years ago and am still using those dock lines. When I finally get fed up with handling 3-strand anchor rode I will use it there also.

BTW dock lines (all lines really) will last a lot longer and be a lot easier to handle if washed every now and then. I use a trash can with water and hand laundry detergent, then in the final rinse use liquid fabric softener. It makes a big difference.

Greg

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Actually a double braid eye splice is much simpler, faster and easier to complete ( that looks good) than a traditional 3-strand eye splice. 8 plait line is almost impossible to find in sizes under 1 inch diameter so almost never see it.

But agreed 3-strand is much easier to work with when the temps are at around freezing mark ( liveaboards)

Gee, somebody didn't tell the people that 8 plait wasn't available under 1" diameter. Have 300' of Nylon 9/16" on one rode and 200' of 1/2" on another. Defender carries 1/2" through 5/8" 8 plait.

Double braid doesn't seem to be very chafe resistant. Most of the double braid Nylon mooring lines are showing signs of chafe, some exposing the core, at the dock cleats after a year of use. Have never had that problem with 3 strand. Will probably buy 8 plait and splice loops in myself. Been awhile since I've done it but remember splicing 8 plait is not as easy as 3 strand. Splicing double braid takes magic and I'm no magician. Have tried it multiple times and never been able to do it.

[Mike Banks]

I used three strand polyester UV protected silver rope spliced to eight feet of chain, which was turned twice around a mooring cleat and secured with a padlock.

That makes it hard for people to set you adrift, while keeping a slight tension in the mooring lines and springs at all times. Chain also provides a solid foundation on which to fasten one's rat baffles BEFORE the little buggers can get to chew on your ropes or use them to come aboard.

[zeehag]

folks mentioning that 3 strand becomes stiff donot maintain their lines well. i rinse mine as needed with fresh water and vinegar so salt crystals donot slice n dice my lines when in high wind situations. my 50 ft hawse line i use fo r dire situations is not too stiff to use or form around a cleat satisfactorily and doesnot cut itself. it has been my primary 50 ft line for over 15 yrs. works well. my braided 25 ft hawse line is stiffer than my three strand because it is difficult to rinse the salt crystals out of yacht braid cores. god forbid one of my lines has suffered furycame patty chafing issues and lost its protective exterior leaving the unscathed core exposed . ohmy i ma gonna die. hahahahaha is still stronger than most other docklines as this one is only 1.25 inch diameter. used to be a mooring pennant. during patricia it was a piling line to my bow's bits. my 50 ft line ripped a cleat out of the dock but is not chafed. the loss of that cleat caused the loss of my boarding ladder due to crushing by hull onto dock. hull is perfect. a lesser boat would have been holed by the ladder.

[fish53]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Quite a range of preferences here.

The first thing I note is that new line coming from the chandler is not like the line after a bit of use. Three-strand hardens and becomes stiff and difficult to handle and stow; it is very robust and does stretch well (while twisting and potentially hockling). It is also very easy to splice (all splices need to be done on new rope, except for masochists). Nothing wrong with 3-strand but it is too much of a PITA for me.

In the US nylon double braid is common. The double braid structure is the least stretchy. This rope remains very flexible in use, and thus pleasant to use and stow. While the outer braid is subject to chafe damage the inner braid can survive for many years. Between 3-strand and double braid I would choose the double braid, because life is too short for stiff rope...

In Europe it is difficult to impossible to find double braid nylon, but 8-plait nylon is readily available. In stretch it is between 3-strand and double braid, and of course doesn't twist. Flexibility, durability, and chafe resistance are also in-between. Some brands are woven loosely, which makes for an easier splice but does tend to catch on rough wood when new. With time 8-plait becomes smoother and harder while retaining flexibility. Splicing is not conceptually that difficult but the rope tightens and by the 4th row of tucks it can be hard work - the resulting square splice is a thing of beauty. 8-plait is my personal favorite; I bought a reel of 16mm about 15 years ago and am still using those dock lines. When I finally get fed up with handling 3-strand anchor rode I will use it there also.

BTW dock lines (all lines really) will last a lot longer and be a lot easier to handle if washed every now and then. I use a trash can with water and hand laundry detergent, then in the final rinse use liquid fabric softener. It makes a big difference.

Greg

After being a commercial fisherman for almost fifty years I can splice dirty, stiff old three strand in my pocket with one hand while sipping my rum with the other, and that's with two inch line.

[inspectr]

Another advantage of three strand "mooring lines" is if you use a material that floats.
Much less chance of fouling the prop at a critical time
I have seen oversized pretty double braid lines tear cleats out of boats as well as from pontoons and even wooden wharfs.

[jmorrison146]

31 years USCG, nothing but double braid including huge towing hawsers. For chafe, ask your local fire station for pieces of old fire hose. Size 'em big as your cleats will handle, soak them in fresh water occasionally, and they will wear well.

[jmorrison146]

Originally Posted by jmorrison146

31 years USCG, nothing but double braid including huge towing hawsers. For chafe, ask your local fire station for pieces of old fire hose. Size 'em big as your cleats will handle, soak them in fresh water occasionally, and they will wear well.

Correction/addition -Great Lakes icebreaker uses Dynema mooring lines on big mooring winches. Everything else is double braid nylon.

[bailsout]

Why splice? Use bowline or nothing. Makes it easy to reverse.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by inspectr

Another advantage of three strand "mooring lines" is if you use a material that floats.
Much less chance of fouling the prop at a critical time
I have seen oversized pretty double braid lines tear cleats out of boats as well as from pontoons and even wooden wharfs.

The floating stuff is not UV protected...it will rot in the sun very quickly.

Oversized regardless of weave can tear out cleats as it creates snatch loads that are much higher because it can take 3-4 times the force to create the same amount of stretch.

Plus where I have seen cleats pulled out it is usually due to the lines being too short. People will tie up with 2-3ft between the cleats and the dock and cleats on the boat...there isn't enough stretch. This is why you cross the lines, so you have enough length that they can stretch and absorb the loads gradually.

Some people are saying braided chafe more quickly but I haven't seen that in practice. Also I've tried washing and using softener to keep 3 strand supple but they still get stiff.

Only reason I would get 3 strand is if I'm replacing an anchor line...often there are sizable sections that are still perfectly good, so you cut out lengths and make new dock lines.

[fish53]

I have no problem splicing double braid, single braid, plaited or three strand and I can't see sufficient benefit in a pleasure boat context to spend any more on line than the cost of three strand. Where I am I can buy three strand for half of the others.

[Rjanderson1174]

I work on a towboat pushing barges on the Mississippi River and ICW. obviously our lines are larger but they do the same thing. We use a braided Spectra line for facing up the boat to barges. It's incredibly strong and has little stretch. It's also lite weight and the deckhands can carry 100ft+ with no problems. We don't often use it for mooring line as it tends to foul down on fittings if not done properly. It also requires extra wraps because it will slip. Only God can undo any knots.
Our 3 strand line is primary for mooring. We rely on the stretch for various reasons and often put it to the test. For mooring, we always try to use a 2 part line. There's still good stratch and added strength for when other vessels and ships pass nearby. Most the time we try to keep our leads short as our cleats/ kavels, timber heads and other bits aren't going anywhere.

Just a suggestion...if you are ripping the cleats out of the boat or off the dock then you should find a safer harbor.

[fish53]

Originally Posted by Rjanderson1174

I work on a towboat pushing barges on the Mississippi River and ICW. obviously our lines are larger but they do the same thing. We use a braided Spectra line for facing up the boat to barges. It's incredibly strong and has little stretch. It's also lite weight and the deckhands can carry 100ft+ with no problems. We don't often use it for mooring line as it tends to foul down on fittings if not done properly. It also requires extra wraps because it will slip. Only God can undo any knots.
Our 3 strand line is primary for mooring. We rely on the stretch for various reasons and often put it to the test. For mooring, we always try to use a 2 part line. There's still good stratch and added strength for when other vessels and ships pass nearby. Most the time we try to keep our leads short as our cleats/ kavels, timber heads and other bits aren't going anywhere.

Just a suggestion...if you are ripping the cleats out of the boat or off the dock then you should find a safer harbor.

We used to use two inch spectra with a cover on the winches we hauled codends aboard with on the factory trawlers I used to run. The deckhands had to haul 100ton hooks plus the wire up the deck and changing to spectra saved a few backs. The two inch would easily haul 60 tons up the stern ramp.