Anchoring question

[Lynx]

Here is a few -
Amateur Radio

[shellback]

waters up here at are too cold to dive in (waters too cold for my liking!)

Will keep those options in mind, (ie - underwater camera, trip lines etc).

My "new" Oday 27, does have a danforth anchor, however I'm going to eventually add a Bruce Anchor , with longer chain, 20-30' of chain and a Fortress Anchor as well.

this area isn't as sandy as the ideal waters of the caribbean, but it's all good!

Mark R.

[Pblais]

Peter,

For SSB here in the USA you will find this is as great group of radio people as we are a Cruisers forum. They also include some additional radio issues but technically they provide a lot of serious information about using the technology.

ARRLWeb: ARRL Home Page

The issues of a license is something you will need to get familiar with. Standards of operation are very important when using any radio. Most countries will recognize a license from another country but they each may have their own rules you will be expected to follow.

[GordMay]

We've several very knowledgeable members, who often share their radio expertise. Specific questions are the easiest to answer.

Some on-line resources:

Marine SSB Single Sideband Simplified ~ by Gordon West (Courtesy of Icom)
Icom America - Marine Radios - SSB Single Sideband Simplified

HF Users Guide ~ SGC
http://www.sgcworld.com/Publications...fguidebook.pdf

General HF Technical Notes ~ SGC
Technical

HF Propagation tutorial ~ by Bob Brown
HF Propagation tutorial

HF Communications tutorials for download:
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[Bear Essentials]

Okay, running the risk of getting jumped on again, might I offer a suggestion that works for us?

We have a Delta 44 plow anchor. The anchor has two eyes in it, one at the end of the shank, the other where the shank bends down to the plow itself. It's not a CQR so don't have to mess with the hinge.

We ran a chain between the two eyes with a bit of slack. When attached, the chain stands about 4 inches above the shank when held in the middle. On the chain we attached a ring, shackle, swivel and the start of the chain portion of the rode. This assembly is referred to as 'the traveler' as it is allowed to slide over the length of the chain.

The anchor deploys normally, plow first. When it hits the bottom, it sets normally, the ring, shackle, swivel, rode resting off the end of the shank of the anchor. When it's time to recover it, just winch away as you would normally do and secure it to the boat.

However, if it gets stuck in the rocks, I simply motor over the top of the anchor (at a 45 degree angle so I don't foul the props) and resume the recovery process. The act of going over the top of the anchor slides the traveller assembly towards the plow portion of the shank and I am able to exert a lot of 'pull' from the opposite direction the anchor is set in without bending the shank over the top (in effect, this eliminates the 180 degree of arc the shank needs to travel if you just started pulling from the opposite direction with a single attachment point at the end of the shank).

The only 'weak link' is the ring itself. I admit it's kinda light and we will probably go to a heaver ring in the near future. But this arrangement works very well for us. I will admit that it's not a traditional way to attach an anchor, but again, this has saved the anchor twice so far without damage and minimal effort.

Finally, while I doubt this would help in the murky waters of the Great Lakes, folks down here in South Florida tend to paint their anchors white. It gives an excellent contrast against the darker grasses where I like to drop the hook. May work in shallower water up there? Donno, just a suggestion, as is everything.

Regards and smooth sailing,

Lee and Terry
Bear Essentials

[Inthewind]

I went out to assist a sailboater with an anchor they could not retrieve. I dove on thier anchor and found it snagged on anchore chain. I freed thier anchor and ended up salvaging about two hundred feet of heavy galvanized chain and a 44 pound claw anchor that looked fairly new. Apparently the owner of the chain and anchor just let it go because they could not retrieve it. It was wrapped around a sunken wreck and I worked hard for my new anchor and chain. I had no idea who owned it so it became part of my gear.

[Starbuck]

Shellback,

As an alternative to a tripping line, you may consider an anchor with a slotted shank, that will allow you to motor over the anchor and pull it out by the head, a la using a tripping line.

[Boracay]

I know that some on this forum think that Danforth type anchors are just wonderful but my experience has been that they are only suited to a limited number of situations.

In particular they do not seem to like heavy mud.

You have found they don't like rocks either.

For my next anchor purchase I am going to evaluate some of the more modern anchors available. (Spade, Beugel, Manson Supreme, Rocna etc.)

I would suggest that you look at what anchors are used by experienced boaters in your area, particularly on boats similar to yours.

I am unsure of the wisdom of attempting to recover an easily replaced anchor of limited value under difficult and possibly risky conditions.

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Bear Essentials

We ran a chain between the two eyes with a bit of slack. When attached, the chain stands about 4 inches above the shank when held in the middle. On the chain we attached a ring, shackle, swivel and the start of the chain portion of the rode. This assembly is referred to as 'the traveler' as it is allowed to slide over the length of the chain.

That's okay but don't anchor over-night with it. There is the risk of the system doing what it's intended to do, when you don't want it to.

Originally Posted by CaptainJeff

As an alternative to a tripping line, you may consider an anchor with a slotted shank, that will allow you to motor over the anchor and pull it out by the head, a la using a tripping line.

No no these are always a bad idea. The slot weakens the shank, or heightens it and creates problems on your bow-roller. You then still have the big problem of it doing what it's intended to do, when you don't want it... usually at 3AM when there's a wind-shift... They also don't work particularly well, as the slot, depending on the anchor, doesn't always go all the way forward (can't, depending on the shank design), whereas you can attach a buoy all the way forward.

The only safe system is a buoyed retrieval line.

[Ram]

Craig wrote
No no these are always a bad idea. The slot weakens the shank, or heightens it and creates problems on your bow-roller. You then still have the big problem of it doing what it's intended to do, when you don't want it... usually at 3AM when there's a wind-shift... They also don't work particularly well, as the slot, depending on the anchor, doesn't always go all the way forward (can't, depending on the shank design), whereas you can attach a buoy all the way forward. The only safe system is a buoyed retrieval line.

Craig
Some of the slotted anchors have 2 attachment points where you can chose to attach in the standard way or the sliding slot, nice option, I think, as in The Manson Supreme -seems to have a very strong looking slot also.

I have no experience with these anchors as of now, but it seems to me that if at 3am there was a wind shift and the anchor pulled out, as the rode retightened it would reset fairly quickly.

One of the problems of having a buoy on your anchor in a crowed anchorage is that someone could run over your buoy and possibly pull your anchor up that way, or cut the buoy lose.

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Ram

Craig
Some of the slotted anchors have 2 attachment points where you can chose to attach in the standard way or the sliding slot, nice option, I think, as in The Manson Supreme -seems to have a very strong looking slot also.

Are you going to decide on the bottom type and re-shackle (and re-seize) the chain every time you anchor?

The Manson shank is very tall and creates massive problems on bow-rollers. It is also very heavy, which messes up the weight balance of the anchor, but that's another story.

Originally Posted by Ram

I have no experience with these anchors as of now, but it seems to me that if at 3AM there was a wind shift and the anchor pulled out, as the rode retightened it would reset fairly quickly.

No... they drag backward. The force pulling from the front of the slot. Like it's designed to.

[Ram]

Craig

I did buy the Mason Supreme, haven’t used it yet, but will in the next few weeks, I think it will fit fine in my roller, a Spade A-140 fits and it’s bigger. I have always used the buoy system where needed,-after sailing into the Med last year.

Anchorages can be very crowded here and many times there are big ferries that come very close and could possibly run your buoy over, so in that case I would try the slot & re shakel-reszeing , it only takes a few minutes to do so , and I have lots of time when it comes to the security of the vessel.
You mentioned the slotted anchors drag backwards in a change of wind, in my experience the boat rarely would go 180* straight back from the original position, unless you motored it- it would go in a circle with the wind or and current and then I would think the anchor would be pulled side ways and it would reset.

I’m going to watch this closely and see how it works and post my observations here.

I have bought 3 new modern design anchors in the last year, the Spade A140 & the XYZ, now the Mason Supreme.
I was very disappointed by the first two, as neither one is good in weeds or hard sand. I have not tried the Manson Supreme yet, but hope it works.

On my previous boat I had a Delta & Danforth, Fortress -all worked ok , but also I was not completely satisfied.

Ram

[spukistiles]

SkiprJohn's suggestion is a really good one. In addition, you may want to add a skeg to the anchorline to help avoid dragging and resetting.

[zephyr4]

Shellback, I noticed that you intend to add a Bruce anchor to the arsenal. Two seasons ago, we used a bruce anchor with a Catalina 27 in the very waters you will be sailing.

We found that the holding power of the Bruce in the typical Lake Michigan bottom is not nearly as good as the holding power of other anchor types.

After dragging three times during very moderate winds, I demoted my Bruce to ballast. If you do go with a Bruce, I would suggest that you go a couple of sizes larger than the manufacturer's reccomendation.

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Ram

You mentioned the slotted anchors drag backwards in a change of wind, in my experience the boat rarely would go 180* straight back from the original position, unless you motored it- it would go in a circle with the wind or and current and then I would think the anchor would be pulled side ways and it would reset.

Ram it doesn't have to be exactly 180 degrees, anything much above 90 degrees is enough to be a massive problem. You set the anchor in one direction, then perhaps the wind reverses overnight... in the dead calm in the middle, the boat just drifts about, there is never enough force to actually rotate the anchor properly - then it picks up again in a direction close to opposite. This is quite common in many anchorages around the world. Once the pull is in a direction away from the correct shank end, the shackle just slides along the slot and suddenly you are pulling the anchor from rather the wrong position. No surprise when it no longer works. Conclusion: do NOT use the slot for anything other than temporary anchoring.