Anchor Balls

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Well actually an allision rather than a collision, there is a subtle difference but without an anchor ball being flown it would be difficult to work out, until too late.

https://naylorlaw.com/blog/allision/

Meanwhile at a mythical court far far away on a large island out West, known for litigation.

So Mr C, we can see from the evidence presented to the court, that you took part in an on line discussion in Dec 23 where it was explained to you by numerous people from around the world why and when you should display an anchor ball. Then some time later, you chose to anchor your yacht without complying with the IRPCS. My client; admittedly pissed drinking Budweiser (how did that happen ) crashed into you. I put it to you Sir, that you were substantially to blame and therefore must bear the majority of my pissed clients costs and repairs.

You are correct. Allision is what would have occurred.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Chotu

not a black ball in sight. only Internet captains in the usa use those lol

go ahead. Zoom in. Find me a black ball. These are anchorages not mooring fields. There are some mornings in the first picture, none in the second picture. Everybody’s at anchor.

How 'bout you post pics with better resolution, huh?
I'd love to zoom in and prove you wrong.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Massachusetts boating handbook makes no mention of anchor balls. https://assets.kalkomey.com/boater/p...ook-entire.pdf

Boating handbooks are just guides and not exhaustive. Just because they don't mention it, does not mean you can ignore it. The MA guide says that boats over 39 ft have to have a copy of the Rules on board, but it doesn't say you have to have read it. Common sense would dictate knowing the basic contents and referring to it when necessary - so when you go to anchor, you read that part of the book and see that you might need to hoist a ball.

I note Massachusetts requires that most recreational vessels have an anchor.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Calaban-Alleria

The anchor light while on the mooring ball does serve a very practical and useful purpose - it helps you find your boat in the dark when rowing back from the pub later that night.

That's why I use my cockpit anchor light. It helps me identify that it's MY boat and not a star.

It also helps other people to not hit someone else's boat, mine.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by SeanPatrick

Maybe off-topic [maybe not], but this reminded me of something I once heard a U.S. police officer say: "I can follow anyone for a few miles and I will catch them breaking a law. No matter how carefully they think they are driving."

As I live on a salt water canal, I'm beginning to think I had better put up an anchor ball on my house. You never know when a tsunami may make it "underway".

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Auklet

See the attached photo. Say you are approaching on starboard tack this boat positioned up wind of you. Is the pictured vessel underway and making way (i.e., moving through the water or actively holding position using propulsion), underway and not making way (adrift), or not underway (anchored)? Your hand is on the tiller, your genoa partially obscures your view approaching, your binoculars are beyond your reach but you glimpse no anchor chain. Question. Doesn't this boater have the personal responsibility to display the black ball if anchored in this location along the shore, i.e., not within any designated anchorage area? Might you approach this vessel with greater safety if you knew its status?

Suppose you finally discover a boat length away that the guy is anchored (i.e., not making way). You try to pass below (a bad decision--tacking away would be better ...) but you don't notice the dinghy until too late for you to swing lower. You foul the painter with your rudder and suddenly swing up and crash the guy's transom while making 6 kt through the water. You complain to the guy that he has no black ball visible; that you did not realize until too late that he was anchored.


"Hey dude. Nobody displays black anchoring balls around here (except maybe internet sailors). So, it's your problem. Go to hell!"

So, to make this an example of how the ball adds safety, I have to understand how you would act differently if:
* This boat, as shown, was stationary and at anchor
vs
* This boat, as shown was stationary and NOT at anchor.


The rule would actually be much more functional if it were for "vessels not making way," not "vessels at anchor." ie, vessels eating lunch, drift fishing, anchored, etc.



The current rule allows me to know that a vessel with a black ball is anchored (but perhaps making 2-3 knots through the water....) whereas a stationary boat (equally unable to maneuver) is, well, possibly the give-way vessel, and will be found culpable in court (recently a small sailboat, with bare steerage way, was found partially liable when a charter boat landed on top of him because... he didn't take enough action to avoid the collision!).

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

So, to make this an example of how the ball adds safety, I have to understand how you would act differently if:
* This boat, as shown, was stationary and at anchor
vs
* This boat, as shown was stationary and NOT at anchor.


The rule would actually be much more functional if it were for "vessels not making way," not "vessels at anchor." ie, vessels eating lunch, drift fishing, anchored, etc.



The current rule allows me to know that a vessel with a black ball is anchored (but perhaps making 2-3 knots through the water....) whereas a stationary boat (equally unable to maneuver) is, well, possibly the give-way vessel, and will be found culpable in court (recently a small sailboat, with bare steerage way, was found partially liable when a charter boat landed on top of him because... he didn't take enough action to avoid the collision!).

If a boat is drifting rather than anchored, they should be able to move pretty much immediately if needed. And from the perspective of approaching them, I'm still likely to avoid them and assume they won't maneuver in response to other boats, but depending on what they're doing and why they're stopped (which may not be apparent to me), they could start moving at any time and with no warning, so I'll be keeping an eye out for that. An anchored boat on the other hand isn't going to immediately start moving, so I can safely assume that they will stay where they are (other than swinging at anchor).

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

If a boat is drifting rather than anchored, they should be able to move pretty much immediately if needed. And from the perspective of approaching them, I'm still likely to avoid them and assume they won't maneuver in response to other boats, but depending on what they're doing and why they're stopped (which may not be apparent to me), they could start moving at any time and with no warning, so I'll be keeping an eye out for that. An anchored boat on the other hand isn't going to immediately start moving, so I can safely assume that they will stay where they are (other than swinging at anchor).

I suppose that if I were approaching the pictured vessel sailing close-hauled on the starboard tack and knew its status as an anchored vessel that lay across my course, I would naturally attempt to pass close aboard under its lee (i.e., astern of it). If I knew the vessel was adrift (not making way), I would naturally attempt to pass across its weather side; i.e., over the bow. I would tack if necessary to accomplish that. If I knew that the vessel was live boating (i.e., making way with propulsion) I would expect it to avoid me as I approached. But with circumspection now, it might not be > 12m LOA.

Sailing in Long Beach Harbor I encounter several such examples each year. Many fishing boats drift while fishing but they are not technically "adrift" in my opinion b/c they have power to move at anytime; which they usually do. However, if passing close I attempt to cross their weather side.


If you do not know whether the vessel ahead is anchored, you might not conclude as early as you might like whether to pass alee or to weather of it. My sailboat today has AP, a wheel, and usually crew at the helm. (That is, I am not single-handing sitting at a tiller with a Genoa on my lee side blocking my continuous view below of a vessel that I am approaching.) Thus, I have time to look through the binoculars for anchor chains, etc., to ascertain the status of a vessel that we are approaching while under sail. Sometimes we must be rather near to finally determine our course to pass. As sailors, I imagine that we might all agree that when under sail, especially in strong conditions, we wish to know our course ahead early when there are potential obstacles. I can see a 0.6m black ball hanging in a foretriangle much earlier and with much less effort than a shot of 1/4" anchor chain, especially if the anchored vessel is not laying at a convenient view angle. From my perspective, it's safer to ascertain early the status of a vessel that you are approaching.


One complication in Long Beach Harbor is that it is basically "illegal" for recreational vessels to anchor anywhere w/o permission from the Marine Bureau. So the "presumption" should be that the vessel ahead is "not anchored" (unless in a designated seaberth as for the commercial ships). But how would I know whether any permissions had been granted or if the vessel had anchored w/o permission? It really should be up to the skipper of a vessel anchored where it should not be, or not expected to be, to convey his status, "I am anchored", to the other vessels using the harbor, etc. So it's silly IMO to degrade a serious discussion of this nature to point out that a bunch of boats are anchored together in a well known, maybe even a marked, anchorage not hoisting the black ball as a justification for never using one if so required! Gaads. Yes, I do know already that if I go in there I'll be avoiding anchored vessels. Just FYI, the vessel in the image I used is anchored where vessels are hardly ever seen anchored. But with circumspection now, it might be > 12m LOA.

[Auklet]

...with circumspection now, it might not be > 12m LOA.

[Nekton73]

This has been such an entertaining thread I felt I should have paid something to read it. However, since that isn't required, I used the money to buy an anchor ball

[Montanan]

As an indicator of how rarely anchor balls day shape signals seem to be utilized just look at the banner image of yachts anchored and moored in harbor at the top of this and every CruisersForum thread.

Nary even a single black ball is deployed on the image of anchored sailing vessels.

Since it is an easy object to raise when dropping anchor or attaching to a mooring and doing such fulfills the ColReg requirement for day signals, I would encourage the use and also encourage teaching mariners of the meaning / purpose of the day shape signal.

Ditto as to a web search for images of sailboats at anchor. Very few anchor balls displayed. Perhaps it might be more the norm in some regions of the world but it is a rarity to find a photo of such.

By way of example, Shutterstock images: https://www.shutterstock.com/search/...age_type=photo

Only images of the large superyachts seem to consistently have anchor balls displayed at their bow railing, albeit they have small balls compared to the massive vessels.

[JPA Cate]

Only images of the large superyachts seem to consistently have anchor balls displayed at their bow railing, albeit they have small balls compared to the massive vessels.

At lease you can tell they won't run you over just now!

[davefromoregon]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

This has been such an entertaining thread I felt I should have paid something to read it. However, since that isn't required, I used the money to buy an anchor ball
Attachment 285028
Attachment 285029

So, paint your radar reflector black? I have no idea if the black paint would screw up the reflector’s ability to work properly.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

So, paint your radar reflector black? I have no idea if the black paint would screw up the reflector’s ability to work properly.

I am no expert of this complex topic but the jist is ... Most black pigments are made with carbon. Carbon is diamagnetic ... think stealth bomber coatings to hide from radar. Unless you are an expert in this area I wouldn't try it.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

So, paint your radar reflector black? I have no idea if the black paint would screw up the reflector’s ability to work properly.

Using a round, black, folding radar reflector which one would not hoist when underway appears to me to be conflicting purposes??