Using a Milwaukee 28v drill on a manual windlass

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Re "flipping" the operator: when using the drill to run a winch, or likely a windlass, there is little chance of sudden increases in torque as when a drill bit seizes up. in my experience the increases in load are gradual enough that one can easily back off on the trigger. The drill will develop a good deal of torque, but its handle is much longer than a winch handle, so it is pretty easy to get sheets and halyards tight enough. I suppose that would be true of a windlass designed to be operated with a winch handle.

But the exposure and battery life would still concern me in the windlass application!

Jim

I imagine it could be adapted to replace the under deck motor on a normal windlass with a strut to take the torque reaction. The chuck could clamp onto a shaft that replaces the original motor shaft. There will be an oil seal somewhere in the mix and it will probably need a way to support the drill weight. For that, the torque reaction strut could be triangulated. All depending on space below and whether dedicating a drill to this job is worthwhile.
The cook could be below doing quick battery changes.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Re "flipping" the operator: when using the drill to run a winch, or likely a windlass, there is little chance of sudden increases in torque as when a drill bit seizes up. in my experience the increases in load are gradual enough that one can easily back off on the trigger. The drill will develop a good deal of torque, but its handle is much longer than a winch handle, so it is pretty easy to get sheets and halyards tight enough. I suppose that would be true of a windlass designed to be operated with a winch handle.

But the exposure and battery life would still concern me in the windlass application!

Jim

Jim,

I believe he is on to a good idea! Most of what I see are idiotic ideas. How do I reinvent the wheel.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

I imagine it could be adapted to replace the under deck motor on a normal windlass with a strut to take the torque reaction. The chuck could clamp onto a shaft that replaces the original motor shaft. There will be an oil seal somewhere in the mix and it will probably need a way to support the drill weight. For that, the torque reaction strut could be triangulated. All depending on space below and whether dedicating a drill to this job is worthwhile.
The cook could be below doing quick battery changes.

Graham, sadly I think this idea (permanent mounting of a millie below the windlass) is quite flawed. One big issue is access for battery changing, which would be required frequently, perhaps after each and every hoist.

Second, the drill requires good air flow through its innards for cooling. This means that any water that is splashed about from the chain will quickly kill the drill... and in every windlass situation that I have seen, there is plenty of water going everywhere. One needs only to listen to folks complaining about rust on the motor cases of such windlasses to understand the issue.

The Milwaukee is a great tool, and we have been very happy with ours as a winch driver, and as a HD right angle drill too... very useful at times! But it has its limitations and one is foolish to not recognize them

Jim

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Graham, sadly I think this idea (permanent mounting of a millie below the windlass) is quite flawed. One big issue is access for battery changing, which would be required frequently, perhaps after each and every hoist.

Second, the drill requires good air flow through its innards for cooling. This means that any water that is splashed about from the chain will quickly kill the drill... and in every windlass situation that I have seen, there is plenty of water going everywhere. One needs only to listen to folks complaining about rust on the motor cases of such windlasses to understand the issue.

The Milwaukee is a great tool, and we have been very happy with ours as a winch driver, and as a HD right angle drill too... very useful at times! But it has its limitations and one is foolish to not recognize them

Jim

It would work on my boat because the windlass under deck motor, is in the front cabin and doesn't get wet or rusty. The anchor chain goes into an anchor locker forward of that and there is a (waterproof when closed) ventilation hatch in the anchor locker bulkhead.
I think it is quite doable, though I'm not sure about battery life. My smaller 13 mm lithium ion AEG drill has impressive power and battery life.
I rely on the conventional anchor windlass system but if you don't have a diesel and an alternator a cordless windlass might work.

[Wotname]

If mounted permantly below deck, would not the operator also be below the deck? I'd imagine converting the millie to remote operation would be a challenge and by then, it would not serve any other normal drill function.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Graham, sadly I think this idea (permanent mounting of a millie below the windlass) is quite flawed. One big issue is access for battery changing, which would be required frequently, perhaps after each and every hoist.

Second, the drill requires good air flow through its innards for cooling. This means that any water that is splashed about from the chain will quickly kill the drill... and in every windlass situation that I have seen, there is plenty of water going everywhere. One needs only to listen to folks complaining about rust on the motor cases of such windlasses to understand the issue.

The Milwaukee is a great tool, and we have been very happy with ours as a winch driver, and as a HD right angle drill too... very useful at times! But it has its limitations and one is foolish to not recognize them

Jim

I guess I missed something? Who was speaking of mounting the drill? I had the impression it was just a portable used to haul the anchor on a manual winch in lieu of elbow grease and sounded like a good idea.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I guess I missed something? Who was speaking of mounting the drill? I had the impression it was just a portable used to haul the anchor on a manual winch in lieu of elbow grease and sounded like a good idea.

Yep, did start out that way and yes, the idea has some merit. I considered it awhile back but worried out too much salt water ingress to proceed with the idea.

Conversation now morhped into permanent mounting etc.
In my book, not good idea as it becomes neither fish nor fowl.

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by Wotname

If mounted permantly below deck, would not the operator also be below the deck? I'd imagine converting the millie to remote operation would be a challenge and by then, it would not serve any other normal drill function.

Quite right about not serving any other function. That's why I wrote about dedicating the drill. As far as the operation is concerned you simply open up the drill and bypass the speed control trigger and wire in 2 heavy cables to a deck mounted foot switch. The cost of dedicating a drill is another story, but boating ain't cheap. I would happily do that if I had the need.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Yep, did start out that way and yes, the idea has some merit. I considered it awhile back but worried out too much salt water ingress to proceed with the idea.

Conversation now morhped into permanent mounting etc.
In my book, not good idea as it becomes neither fish nor fowl.

Yep! Mounting it under the deck to the winch sounds like a wet dream.
I don't think I would worry about water and the drill. Hell, hump the anchor up if you have green water.

[Jman]

I can't find a manual for the Muir windlass mentioned, but the pictures look like this to me: the centrally located socket is for the break. The offset socket is for driving the winch. When you put the handle in the offset socket you turn the whole drum, with ratcheting but no gearing. A drill would not be able to duplicate that action.

Correct me if I am wrong. Because I love the idea.


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[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I guess I missed something? Who was speaking of mounting the drill? I had the impression it was just a portable used to haul the anchor on a manual winch in lieu of elbow grease and sounded like a good idea.

It was me. I confess to suggesting mounting the drill below deck out of the sea spray. I think the basic problem was raising the anchor / chain with only a 15 HP Honda outboard to provide the ergs.

It might even be possible to make a battery cage for a drill battery and run a conventional windlass motor on that. Yes I know the Milwaukee drill battery is 28 V and a windlass is usually rated at 12 V but they happily run on 14/15 v with the boat motor running. When we used to have 6 volt car systems they could be converted to 12 volts and that didn't affect the 6 V starter motor. Or a lower voltage drill battery could be found. Or a 24 V windlass could be found.
There are lots of different ways to skin the cat.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

It was me. I confess to suggesting mounting the drill below deck out of the sea spray. I think the basic problem was raising the anchor / chain with only a 15 HP Honda outboard to provide the ergs.

It might even be possible to make a battery cage for a drill battery and run a conventional windlass motor on that. Yes I know the Milwaukee drill battery is 28 V and a windlass is usually rated at 12 V but they happily run on 14/15 v with the boat motor running. When we used to have 6 volt car systems they could be converted to 12 volts and that didn't affect the 6 V starter motor. Or a lower voltage drill battery could be found. Or a 24 V windlass could be found.
There are lots of different ways to skin the cat.

Sounds like rambling. I think the original idea has some merit. One post showed a vertical chain winch that might fit the bill, if the drill is variable speed. It appeared as though it had a reduction. Don't think it needs 1800 RPM maybe 60? My experience with Milwaukee right angle drills is any RPM you want.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Re "flipping" the operator: when using the drill to run a winch, or likely a windlass, there is little chance of sudden increases in torque as when a drill bit seizes up. in my experience the increases in load are gradual enough that one can easily back off on the trigger. The drill will develop a good deal of torque, but its handle is much longer than a winch handle, so it is pretty easy to get sheets and halyards tight enough. I suppose that would be true of a windlass designed to be operated with a winch handle.

But the exposure and battery life would still concern me in the windlass application!

Jim

I think the "flipping" the operator was referring to what the Milwaukee drill would do if the drill bit were to bind up completely. Having worked with the Milwaukee's 110v right angle drill for many years I can guarantee there is no man that can match the torque of that drill and would wind up flat on his ass if he tried!


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[smj]

My main objective is to have a multi purpose tool, the same tool that raises the main, raises the anchor and if need be, adjusts the genoa sheets. I wouldn't be interested in below deck mounting as I wouldn't be able to use the tool for the other purposes, but it does seem like an interesting idea. The catamaran we just purchased should be able to produce a decent speed if kept light. The interior is not yet complete, so my thoughts at this point are designing a lightweight interior and saving weight any way I can. I also like the least amount of systems as possible, and thought the Milwaukee, being a multi purpose tool would cut down on the systems. All the posts are great and give food for thought.


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[smj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Graham, sadly I think this idea (permanent mounting of a millie below the windlass) is quite flawed. One big issue is access for battery changing, which would be required frequently, perhaps after each and every hoist.



Second, the drill requires good air flow through its innards for cooling. This means that any water that is splashed about from the chain will quickly kill the drill... and in every windlass situation that I have seen, there is plenty of water going everywhere. One needs only to listen to folks complaining about rust on the motor cases of such windlasses to understand the issue.



The Milwaukee is a great tool, and we have been very happy with ours as a winch driver, and as a HD right angle drill too... very useful at times! But it has its limitations and one is foolish to not recognize them



Jim

One would be foolish to continue using the tool if they know it's beyond the tools limitations, but how does one know it's limitations unless they have made use of the tool to determine it's effectiveness?


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