Talk me out of roller furling

[Adelie]

Having a roller furling headsail affects several other decisions too.

I would say that on a WS32 you want to have a good light air sail. The boat has a moderate SA/D or I would suggest making sure your engine is in good working order.

For light air foresails there are 4 options:

A. Symmetrical spinnaker. May come with the boat. Needs a pole. Beam reach to DDW. With a racing crew probably the fastest option throughout its range. Shorthanded it’s probably a handful that you want to take down at night and whenever equals may be about.

B. Cruising chute, symmetrical or asymmetrical. Tacked near the bow. Should be OK to handle shorthanded using a snuffing sock. Broad reach to somewhat above a beam reach.

C. CodeZero. Medium close reach to broad reach. Usually on a roller furler. Usually needs a sprit extending past the pulpit. Expensive.

D. Drifter, basically a very large nylon Genoa. Can use 3-4 hanks or can be set flying. Close hauled to broad reach. Probably the cheapest.

A,B&C can be set around a rollerfurling headsail with minimal issues.

B,C&D can run DDW by using a pole to run wing & wing.

I would eliminate the symmetrical spinnaker because of safety issues flying it with a shorthanded crew and because sometime you need to go upwind in light airs.

I would eliminate the CodeZero for the price of sail, roller gear and added sprit. Complexity requiring expensive maintenance in developing countries doesn’t help either.

Asymmetrical chute is probably slightly faster than a drifter but can’t go hard on the wind.

Drifter can go close hauled and probably is somewhat cheaper than the asymmetric. Close hauled it can be set on its luff ahead of the furled headsail raised on a spinnaker halyard but it’s better if it’s set on the headstay which precludes roller furling. Strikes much easier if set on the headstay.

Coastal cruising near the developed world drifter or asymmetric are probably a wash.

Offshore passages I’d go with the drifter for the better upwind performance and the better control that hanks provide when dousing.

Having the headsail on a roller furler is a convenience. It is arguably a safety item. I can see that it reduces the trips to the bow. However it is also an item that may require fixing during a storm if there is a malfunction. Sail with a roller furler long enough and you are guaranteed to need to work on a partially furled sail in the middle of a storm at sea.
In storm and near storm conditions you will want the headsail removed to reduce windage for safety reasons. Are you going to be good about removing the sail from its furler when you are in gale conditions that might worsen?
It is also a maintenance item.

If I was coastal cruising I would be content with a roller furling system that came with the boat. I would adapt other systems around it.

Offshore sailing in exotic locales (read high customs duties for repair parts) I’d be happier with hanked on. Less maintenance, easier to repair, easier to use a drifter.

Lastly, foredeck work on a 19,000lb is much less of a rollercoaster than doing so on a 5,000lb Vega, even if it’s on the bowsprit of the Westsail. With the cutter rig the headsail should be down by about 20kt wind or so. After that it’s all staysail work which is further aft.

I would bag the sail in the forestay. You can get kits for those from SailRite.

[Hhew]

My immediate action drill in the event of losing the engine in a channel or around the docks is to pop the furler clutch and deploy the Genoa to keep some way on the boat and preserve steerage. You can’t do that with hank-on. I’ve had this happen twice on two different boats and that furler turned an emergency into a no-big-deal recovery.

[JPA Cate]

Yes, but it's really quick to hoist a drifter, if it's on deck and ready to go.

Honestly, I'd prefer to hoist the main to keep way on. It is fairly easy to go forward, pop the halyard, and commence anchoring.

It, to me, is mostly a question of the OP getting to know his boat and its rig, and then figuring out how to optimize it. It will be the least costly option in the long run. of course, it will take practice, and paying attention. That's life. You want to cut corners, then the lack of knowledge through experimentation will be lost to you.

Ann

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by JBP

In addition to the reasons above (they slow you down, they are more likely to break, they are expensive), I find that I am far less likely to choose the correct sail for the conditions. Too lazy to take it down and put on the correct one. If it was hanked on, I'd have to make that choice every day.

So for those of us with roller furling when they break we just (or at least I) just treat the sail as hanked on and lower the whole thing after I get to my destination or before if need be.

It can be a little awkward since we don't have to lower sails much but that is what I have done a couple times.

The problem both times was a fouled furling line. Mine sometimes wraps around the base under the drum. Sometimes very tight

As for sail selection with the furler you can furl to size but I also have 3 jibs of different sizes one being a storm jib the PO left.

It has a long 2' (strop) cable attached to the head so the halyard doesn't get wrapped around the furler since it is so short

I'm also getting a smaller main 9" longer in the luff and a foot shorter on the foot which I'm hoping will decrease some of the weather helm in strong winds and possibly allowing me to point a little better

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Hhew

My immediate action drill in the event of losing the engine in a channel or around the docks is to pop the furler clutch and deploy the Genoa to keep some way on the boat and preserve steerage. You can’t do that with hank-on. I’ve had this happen twice on two different boats and that furler turned an emergency into a no-big-deal recovery.

This has actually happened to me and I had to use the jib but I also had to turn around across traffic and head back out because the wind went too far forward. Engine over heated and quit when the impeller disintegrated

I'd rather have the main up also rather than the jib in a channel because with jib only you cannot go to windward very well but you can with the main which is why many times especially coming in my creek with the jetties on both side I leave it up just in case the engine dies.

I also cheat to the windward side coming in my creek but maybe not too far over if tide is strong and opposite

Sometimes the tide is ripping through there just outside the jetties as it is at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay.

I have sailed in there sideways (crablike) cheating to windward and up tide for safety dealing with the jetties (plus I only have a 5 hp outboard)

[Adelie]

One of the issues with roller furling is that the sail is loose when you drop it, no big deal in light air or at the dock. Serious problem during heavy weather, potentially very expensive and possibly dangerous.

The way to alleviate this is to use slack straps around the foil, like hanks, but only taking load when the sail is dropped. The straps can be short strips of sail cloth with a snap at the end or a short piece of line with a toggle at the end. The straps are sewn to the sail on one side, wrap around the foil loosely and attach to the snap receiver or another line with an eye spliced to the end. When the sail is up and rolled they are thin enough to cause minimal wear and chafe.

[MicHughV]

The simple fact of the matter is that a furled headsail is not a very efficient sail.

I sailed for years and years and then some more years with simple hanked on sails. Never once considered going to furling sails.

The Westsail 32 is a heavy chubby little boat. A speedster it is not, You need all the power you can from your sails to move it. My 2c would be to use the most efficient sail setup you can. For sure, a sail at the end of the sprit could be roller furled, for ease of use, but leave the staysail hanked on.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So for those of us with roller furling when they break we just (or at least I) just treat the sail as hanked on and lower the whole thing after I get to my destination or before if need be.

It can be a little awkward since we don't have to lower sails much but that is what I have done a couple times.

The problem both times was a fouled furling line. Mine sometimes wraps around the base under the drum. Sometimes very tight

As for sail selection with the furler you can furl to size but I also have 3 jibs of different sizes one being a storm jib the PO left.

It has a long 2' (strop) cable attached to the head so the halyard doesn't get wrapped around the furler since it is so short

I'm also getting a smaller main 9" longer in the luff and a foot shorter on the foot which I'm hoping will decrease some of the weather helm in strong winds and possibly allowing me to point a little better

You mentioned the fouled furling line. This, to me, is the worst danger of a furling sail, especially if they jam with the sail halfway in, so they can neither be dropped nor furled completely. No amount of good maintenance will prevent this if the line is used carelessly, and it only takes one crew letting it fly once to get your wraps all ahoo.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Benz

You mentioned the fouled furling line. This, to me, is the worst danger of a furling sail, especially if they jam with the sail halfway in, so they can neither be dropped nor furled completely. No amount of good maintenance will prevent this if the line is used carelessly, and it only takes one crew letting it fly once to get your wraps all ahoo.

Actually you can still drop the sail but you have to fully unfurl it do drop it which is why on this day I made myself be patient and wait until I was in the protection of my creek 25 miles away to drop

So soon as I'm in those protected waters of the creek I go forward with autopilot still steering and bring the sail in. I may have had to untangle the first section of line I don't remember but it didn't take long because I also had to then go back and get the outboard down and started

Then I fixed it at the dock. (sail was on the deck by then) The lower nut had loosened up so I just had to raise that section and tighten then the furling line couldn't get wrapped around anymore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agtdrmAqojs

[Benz]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually you can still drop the sail but you have to fully unfurl it do drop it which is why on this day I made myself be patient and wait until I was in the protection of my creek 25 miles away to drop

So soon as I'm in those protected waters of the creek I go forward with autopilot still steering and bring the sail in

Then I fixed it at the dock. (sail was on the deck by then) The lower nut had loosened up so I just had to raise that section and tighten then the furling line couldn't get wrapped around anymore

If you had been offshore in big waves it would have been dangerous and maybe nearly impossible. Not a lot of protected creeks to hide in out in the ocean...

[JBP]

Originally Posted by Hhew

My immediate action drill in the event of losing the engine in a channel or around the docks is to pop the furler clutch and deploy the Genoa to keep some way on the boat and preserve steerage. You can’t do that with hank-on. I’ve had this happen twice on two different boats and that furler turned an emergency into a no-big-deal recovery.

Before roller furling became ubiquitous, a simple trick to do the same thing was to secure your sail with "light stuff", i.e. string that can be broken with a good hard pull on the halyard.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Benz

You mentioned the fouled furling line. This, to me, is the worst danger of a furling sail, especially if they jam with the sail halfway in, so they can neither be dropped nor furled completely. No amount of good maintenance will prevent this if the line is used carelessly, and it only takes one crew letting it fly once to get your wraps all ahoo.

That's why choice of furler, line routing, and amount of line on the drum are so important in the initial setup. You can't prevent every possible problem, but you can certainly make some of them less likely, or increase the extent of mishandling required to cause the problem.

Worst case in a jam like that, you go forward, cut the furling line at the jam (or where it exits the drum), roll the sail back out and drop it instead of furling. Not ideal as the sail is not as nice to drop as a hanked on one, but you can definitely recover from the failure. An open drum furler is preferred, as the there's less possibility to get a jam you can't clear with a knife. As long as you can cut enough to allow the drum to rotate, you'll be able to get the sail back out and dropped.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Benz

If you had been offshore in big waves it would have been dangerous and maybe nearly impossible. Not a lot of protected creeks to hide in out in the ocean...

Yes I would have had to go forward and do it in that case which I could have done with just the jib up.

I would use a tether though.

On this day (in video below) had I been in the ocean I may have had a problem though. I couldn't leave the tiller because I had the main up and too much main.

If I let go of the tiller the boat is going to immediately round up and I'll get slammed with waves

I only had one bottle of water in the cockpit when I sailed off anchor 3 hours before I was in sync enough to record this. Plus the waves had laid down a bit by this point. Plus I'm tired from lack of sleep.

Dodger frame got broken earlier with a breaking wave when I was forced to sail at an angle to the waves before I could turn DDW. Waves were huge at the shipping channels due to depth differences I guess. Plus it was tide against wind. I would hold on to a winch when I saw a wave about to break over the side to stay aboard

Point is if I'd had to stay at the tiller for hours more I would have had to do something at some point.

Also I was very glad the wind didn't increase anymore as I didn't want the bow to get driven under the waves and further

***** just remembered that a week or so later after this I was furling in the jib near land when the furling line broke! (jib rolled right back out) I tacked and sailed in then lowered again by hand. I'm just glad that didn't happen on this day******

Furling line was ancient though and should have been replaced sooner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nXfjcCuiPk

[Tsuru]

All of the 6 Westsail 32’s on Yachtworld today have a roller furling headsail. Consider purchasing a known brand with manufacturer support. I’ve owned both Harken and Sheafer and they were rock solid reliable. Like any piece of sailing kit they require routine service (although very little) and you need to monitor chafe on the furling line.
Furling sails are not as efficient as hank on, that are not as efficient as a foil, but the ability easily and safely adjust the sail size more than makes up the difference.
The ability to easily roll in some headsail just before a squall hits and roll out quickly after is important. You don’t disturb the of watch crew, they are not bounced around, and you never leave the cockpit. Their reliability has been well proven.
Good luck with your decision,
Ray

[MicHughV]

I looked up those Westsail 32's on Yachtworld, and they are pretty much as I, and others have suggested. The sail on the end of the sprit is on a furler....a good choice as the sprit is w-a-a-a-y out there, and hanking it on, dousing or raising it, would be a chore under the best of conditions.

The sail at the front of the boat, at the bow, the " jib" on most boats...but the "staysail" on this model boat is hanked on.

I think the nomenclature of terms can be confusing, as it's rare to see a modern boat with a bowsprit of any lenght. For most modern the boats, the "staysail" is located between the mast and bow, but on the Westsail 32, it is on the bow.