New Blocks for Mainsheet on 45 Footer

[UNCIVILIZED]

Glad to hear of some progress. Although like I said earlier, Harken's mainsheet load formula is a bit screwy. Sometimes spitting out load numbers for mains which are twice that of jibs of equal sail area.

There's not a huge inventory of Harken blocks on Ebay @ the moment, but here are a few, just to give you some ideas.
Harken 114mm 4 1 2" Big Boat Swivel Block S | eBay

Cheek Block (minus mounting bolts) Harken Sailboat Sailing Block Assembly 4 5" Diameter 7 8" Wide Sheave 6 5" Case | eBay

Boaters Resale Shop of TX 13021721 01 Harken Big Boat Single Block with Becket | eBay

Harken Single Block Aluminum Ball Bearing Sheave | eBay

Harken 1969 Black Magic Single Swivel Block 75mm s 3 4A | eBay

Harken Black Magic 75mm Aluminum Block Swivel Becket Free Shipping | eBay

Boaters Resale Shop of TX 13020742 02 Harken 75 Aluminum Double Block w Shackle | eBay

Harken 100mm 4" Big Boat Tear Drop Blocks | eBay
The last one looks & is a bit rough, especially compared to the others. And that wear (bare patch) on the sheave is from use with wire. Though in a pinch, the side plates can always be painted, & any true rough spots on the sheaves sanded & polished out.

Often enough, the best deals are on the blocks designed to be attached via webbing straps, or Spectra Loups/lashings. Which is kind of my preference anyway.
Ten days ago there was a pair of 75mm High Load, Double Sheave, Web Heads which appeared to have never been used, & they were going for $250 each.
They were rated at 10,000lbs working load if memory serves. And they may show up again, just that the seller let the posting lapse & hasn't reposted them yet.

[Nicholson58]

Here are photos of our set up. Note the sheet starts on stbd, runs the blocks and exits to port. From there it goes to the winch in the cockpit. The port & stbd leads to the side provide for a bit of a cushion on a jibe. It is less of an impact. Also, the blocks are spread along the boom to help distribute the load. I show the garhauer block as reference (spinnaker block) - is all needle bearings, monster & 84 bucks. These are not light the way Harken blocks are but the cost is well less.

[sailr69]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Talk to the folks at Harken, & or www.APSltd.com Harken makes, & has always made excellent blocks. Their Air/Big Boat blocks being my favorites on the planet.
Also, if you go to their website, they have diagrams of how to choose what kind of mainsheet (or other system) which you want, as well as what sized blocks are appropriate for your sized boat with such a system.


They also have the formulas listed for how to calculate sheet loads for various sails (although the one for mains is a bit screwy, as it comes up with far higher load number for mains than for jibs of the same size). But if you give them a call, they're more than happy to talk to you... including/especially the customer service department.


Plus, often enough, you can pick up older gen. Big Boat blocks used, like on Ebay, dirt cheap. Just make sure that they weren't used with wire, as it scores & scars the sheaves, which will cause rope sheets to wear out a lot faster.
And if you run across some which don't come with shackles, those are easy enough to find.
And there are, of course newer, & new Harken blocks around. On Ebay, as well as at lots of vendors at less than retail prices. You know, last year's model at good sized discounts.


I hear good to great things about Karvers, but don't have much experience with them. And would pass on most Lewmars. They tend to be rather fragile compared to their catalog, load ratings. Especially on mainsheets, where blocks regularly get slammed.


NOTE: Sometimes the blocks which you have just need a good servicing (deck/cheek blocks included). Disassembly of the block, & a good cleaning & polishing of all of the moving parts. A little bit of rust, salt & dirt, can really add up, to cause some older block designs to lose efficiency, or plain old freeze up. And it's a great season for doing such maint.
Just commandeer the Kitchen counters, & it's twin sinks on a few evenings.

it is very easy to double the purchase, why not just do that?

[Nicholson58]

You can also look for hardware here Home Page

This is NOS; salvage; out of business etc. Prices are fantastic. If you don't find what you want on their web site CALL. Less than 10% of the inventory is updated on the site.

[nigel1]

Eyr,

Is there another fixing point on the traveller?.
If there is, you can remove the end of the sheet from the boom, hang another block where the sheet used to attach to, and lead the end of the sheet back to the traveller and make it fast there. Gives you a bit more purchase.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by sailr69

it is very easy to double the purchase, why not just do that?

Where does the doubler block go, as at the moment, I can't picture it.

[donradcliffe]

Go with the Harken fiddle blocks and lose the rope clutch.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Go with the Harken fiddle blocks and lose the rope clutch.

Yeah, I'd been thinking Fiddle blocks too, all along. Though I can't say with certainty what size I'd suggest he use. Especially given how cherry these are vs. their price tag http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARKEN-FIDDL...7cf309&vxp=mtr


And also, these http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARKEN-114mm...5d8567&vxp=mtr


That & I've been wondering if it makes sense to step up to a 6:1 system, also (or a bigger winch).
The latter being a place where, racers aside, both builders & owners are reluctant to fork over $. Although as time goes by, power winches, or one well placed power winch is/are becoming more & more common.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Yeah, I'd been thinking Fiddle blocks too, all along. Though I can't say with certainty what size I'd suggest he use. Especially given how cherry these are vs. their price tag Harken Fiddle Spriddle Block 100mm 75mm Swivel Head | eBay


And also, these Harken 114mm 4 1 2" Big Boat Spriddle Block S | eBay


That & I've been wondering if it makes sense to step up to a 6:1 system, also (or a bigger winch).
The latter being a place where, racers aside, both builders & owners are reluctant to fork over $. Although as time goes by, power winches, or one well placed power winch is/are becoming more & more common.

I used the Harken classic mid-range fiddles on the First 456 for about 10 years and never had a problem. With the winch, 4:1 is plenty of power.

[CaptNemoO2]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Here are photos of our set up. Note the sheet starts on stbd, runs the blocks and exits to port. From there it goes to the winch in the cockpit. The port & stbd leads to the side provide for a bit of a cushion on a jibe. It is less of an impact. Also, the blocks are spread along the boom to help distribute the load. I show the garhauer block as reference (spinnaker block) - is all needle bearings, monster & 84 bucks. These are not light the way Harken blocks are but the cost is well less.

Is that true? My boat is rigged the same way, and in fact I took a picture today while I was down there to post this very question. Is it a noticeable difference? I tend to avoid jibes, because I'm afraid of what damage could occur. On my fathers boat (Catalina 42) we would tend to hand brake the boom by pulling the mainsheet in from in between the the tackle (so we can quickly pull it in) as it comes over, and then let the line slip out through a gloved hand to control it. We obviously only do this when the wind isn't too strong and we are racing. Otherwise we pull in the main tight, then jibe and release. On my boat, I never felt safe doing so, too much sail area.

PS: I'm not saying that if this rig eases the load of a jibe, I'm just going to let it fly freely!

PPS: Sorry for the thread hijack!

[savoir]

You are giving up on the old gear too easy. Why not try cleaning it up first rather than spend all that money ?

Start by removing the mainsheet from the boat and putting it through a washing machine. Set the water to hot and use soap. That should remove the salt and soften the rope.

Remove all the blocks and strip then down. They look like solid bronze bearing type and will probably be clogged in a few years worth of salt crust. Soak them in a dish of vinegar for around 30 mins then remove the remaining salt with an old toothbrush. If the bearings are still a little rough you might have to smooth the centers with a wire brush fitting on a dremel type tool. Put everything back together and try it out.

Finally, those bottom blocks are fighting each other. Separate them by shackling one to each end of the traveler connecting bar.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by CaptNemoO2

Is that true? My boat is rigged the same way, and in fact I took a picture today while I was down there to post this very question. Is it a noticeable difference? I tend to avoid jibes, because I'm afraid of what damage could occur. On my fathers boat (Catalina 42) we would tend to hand brake the boom by pulling the mainsheet in from in between the the tackle (so we can quickly pull it in) as it comes over, and then let the line slip out through a gloved hand to control it. We obviously only do this when the wind isn't too strong and we are racing. Otherwise we pull in the main tight, then jibe and release. On my boat, I never felt safe doing so, too much sail area.

PS: I'm not saying that if this rig eases the load of a jibe, I'm just going to let it fly freely!

PPS: Sorry for the thread hijack!

It seems to reduce the bang on an unintended jibe. I also center the sheet and ease it out. - good practices -

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by savoir

You are giving up on the old gear too easy. Why not try cleaning it up first rather than spend all that money ?

Start by removing the mainsheet from the boat and putting it through a washing machine. Set the water to hot and use soap. That should remove the salt and soften the rope.

Remove all the blocks and strip then down. They look like solid bronze bearing type and will probably be clogged in a few years worth of salt crust. Soak them in a dish of vinegar for around 30 mins then remove the remaining salt with an old toothbrush. If the bearings are still a little rough you might have to smooth the centers with a wire brush fitting on a dremel type tool. Put everything back together and try it out.

Finally, those bottom blocks are fighting each other. Separate them by shackling one to each end of the traveler connecting bar.

All good points. My observation, however, is that this collection of blocks looks like a mixed bag of parts, not well laid out or matched. BTW, here is a link to Garhauer blocks. Garhauer Marine Hardware -9812324

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

All good points. My observation, however, is that this collection of blocks looks like a mixed bag of parts, not well laid out or matched. BTW, here is a link to Garhauer blocks. Garhauer Marine Hardware -9812324

The top and bottom block are different models and the bottom ones are right on the size limit. I would prefer either for the bottom blocks to be one size larger or a 10 mm mainsheet used.

[CaptNemoO2]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

It seems to reduce the bang on an unintended jibe. I also center the sheet and ease it out. - good practices -

Thanks. I tried to Google this setup but I had a difficult time figuring out what terms to search for. Most of my hits revolved around dinghys. I would like to find out more info, especially to double check the order the line runs through the 3 blocks on the boom, but it's proven to be a hard search! Any hints?

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