Help me Work out my Foredeck Layout

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by sully75

Would 1/4" g10 work for backing plates?


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Hi, Sully,

I wasn't sure about this, so I asked my resident expert, Jim. He says a resounding "yes", you can, and sounds like he thought it would be preferable. But yes, IMO you will be better off with backing plates between the ply and the objects you want to secure, especially if you're planning on singlehanding a lot--some stuff you just don't want to worry about later on, you want it right.

Relative to raising the furler drum, having to get over the furler line when you go forward is more of a challenge the higher it gets.

Honestly, I'd try to keep the bow pulpit, even if you're not going to use it for launching your spinnaker. It is something that can help you catch yourself if the boat takes an unexpected lurch while you're up there. Sometimes large wakes from power boats will do it to you.

Anyway, do make sure everything leads fair.

Ann

[sully75]

Ok g10 backing plates won't be too much trouble. Should have used them on the stern cleats too, used plywood, I think I'll be ok.

I'd love to raise the drum, it's actually down from where it was last season (entirely new rig made from new and recycled parts) but labor wise I know it's not going to happen. Just too much to do. In the position from the first photograph though at the top of the thread, the shank of the anchor will clear the furling drum.

I don't want to put cleats on the rail because I don't want to mess with the hull/deck joint, and can't really reinforce cleats well there. I can back them up on the foredeck to the extent that I think for them to pull loose they'd have to take the whole foredeck with them.

I'm not excited about putting the fairleads on the joint either, but not sure I have any choice. I'd love to step them back an inch and put them up on risers the level of the joint, but I think they would be liable to chafe on the joint itself unless they are right out onto the rail.

Thanks for all your thoughts, much appreciated.

[sully75]

And yeah, I would love to custom weld up a big anchor roller/stemhead fitting, but that's not happening this year either.

For the record...the bowsprit thing has already been removed. I have the wood and may incorporate it into the new design, but I don't think it helped with clearance all that much. Since it raised the roller 1.5" or so, it brought the tip of the anchor up closer to the hull. I'd like the bow roller to be flush with the toe rail to keep the anchor as low as possible so it can take advantage of as much overhang as can be. I'm wondering about installing a rub plate against the hull too.

Maybe I really need a bowsprit thing of some sort, but really they just look like levers to break off. Plus I don't have time to build one this season anyway.

[barnakiel]

Build a short platform in teak and SS and fit it to the bow. Support it with a length of pipe that is angled some 45 degs from the platform. A V shaped inboard part will take care of side loads. The platform to extend only some 4'' forward and not to carry any stay. But a free satyed light sail may be flown from it.

It will allow for twin rollers one each side of the stay.

Reconsider the winch. Yours is a small boat. We use 33lbs anchor with 100' of chain. No winch here. Not to say there will not be one as we grow real old. But then perhaps we should not be out there cruising if we can't handle the anchor on a 30'er.

b.

[sully75]

It's a possibility for next season. I've thought about a removable bowsprit anyway, for flying a light air sail. So, could kill two birds with one stone.

I have no inboard. I had to pull the anchor in a big windshift where a nasty chop came in and there were a bunch of boats to leeward of me and the bow was pitching terribly in some pretty big waves. It was pretty unpleasant, took about 30 minutes to get all the chain in. I was also sick at the time. So, anyway, definitely want the windlass, it was a learning experience. It's pretty light weight, mostly aluminum.

[sully75]

Here's my revision. Still doing deck repairs.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[builder dan]

I would keep the windlass too all chain is very heavy have you considered removing the two cleats and replacing with a decent bollard would tidy the deck up a bit.

[Marqus]

Originally Posted by sully75

Here's my revision. Still doing deck repairs. Attachment 85233

Purely an observation: your photo shows how massively an on-deck windlass and anchor roller can destroy foot moving and working space on the foredeck near the bow.

I'm thinking about how to install my windlass, and this photo motivates me to look again at finding a way of putting the thing down inside the anchor locker so I retain some clean work space on deck. Have not personally seen such an installation, and it will no doubt create a few practical problems, but this photo convinces me it's worth a try.

[Terra Nova]

What the original installation got right was mounting both the roller channel and cleat, in-line, on the same riser block, so that the combined number of fasteners helped each other to make a stabile base and spread high loads over a greater area and greater number of fasteners. The windlass can also be mounted to the same riser block, adding yet more stability and more rode clearance over the cleat; additionally the aluminum windlass housing wouldn't always be sitting in a damp spot, accelerating corrosion. You could go so far as to include the portside cleat in this mounting arrangement, perhaps covering all the old holes. A symmetrical cleat arrangement looks best.

For backing plates in these highly loaded installations I like to make a large plywood spacer with an aluminum backing plate, nearly as large--best if it is one piece which carries all the heavy loads, rather than a number of smaller backing plates, as long as they are closely situated. Heavy fender washers, self-locking nuts and Tef-Gel.

The chocks can be located near the forward stanchions, as shown.

A vertical capstan windlass could save a bunch of real estate, if there is below decks space.

[Cheechako]

It looked pretty good to start with... had you considered just raising the furler up? The chocks (fairleads?) pictured look like toys. I would ditch those and just put two big ones up there... inside the bulwark on a block if necessary and thru bolted with a backing plate. Maybe locating your cleats so that the lead thru the new chocks doesn't have a sharp bend. You will want to use those for an anchor rode snubber.
Working out room for an adequate size chain hawse under the windlass as well as a chain stripper can be hard. Think it through well before cutting! I think raising the windlass up on a block often helps provide room for both and their attachments.

[JPA Cate]

sully,

I think Terra Nova's suggestion would clean it up a lot. You really do want to be able to get about safely on the foredeck.

Ann

[sully75]

Thanks all. I might have been a bit rash in taking out the old arrangement, but I'm pretty much glad I did. The PO generally didn't seal or back up anything. The bowsprit was on with 5200 and it pulled a bit of the deck off, exposing a lot of moisture that got in under the fastenings. I ground it all back to good wood and scarfed in a piece to cover, then I covered with a lot of glass/epoxy. I think it's much stronger now.

I like the idea of one riser. The problem is that the teak piece isn't wide enough to have the roller and the windlass in one plane.

I could build up another riser out of a couple of layers of marine plywood epoxied up, seal it and epoxy it. Would that sound reasonable? Or I could reuse the teak and then build a riser next to it for the windlass.

[sully75]

Btw I mentioned earlier. I backed up the entire anchor locker are underneath with 1/2" marine plywood. It's in 4 sections because of deck beams. I feel like that + 3/8" g10 backing plates + fender washers should be pretty solid even without the riser continuity you mentioned. Would you agree or no? Happy to hear your thoughts and thanks for entertaining the back and forth on this. I'd like to get it pretty solid in my head before I start making cuts.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Terra Nova]

Your anchor roller channel must be mounted no lower than the top of the toe rail, unless you intend to butcher the rail. So you need a thickness of wood (teak works well for this ) to bring at least the channel up to this level. If you also mount the cleat (s) at this level, you will have no problem tying off the anchor line coming in over the roller. If you also mount the windlass at this level, it won't interfere with the cleat which lies between it and the roller. If your dock line chocks are also mounted at this level, everything will look like a professional did it. And it will all be much stronger than what you are proposing.

[sully75]

I'm still vexed about what to do with the chocks. Ideally I'd like them on the toe rail. But there is no access to back them up from below. I was wondering about glueing in a threaded stainless insert but there won't be a whole lot of meat to screw into.

I can move them just inboard of the toe rail and put them on risers and then I can back them up. But then it looks like a bridle will be going over the toe rail and could chafe. I could put some half round stainless over the toe rail.

I'm not sure how much force is on these things but it sure would suck for them to rip out of the deck.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum