Foot in or out?

[Bigjim]

I have two mains, one with a foot rope and luff slugs and the other has no foot rope but a luff rope.

For the last year I was using the main with the luff slugs and foot rope and put the foot rope in the boom slot.

Everything worked fine and it was one less thing to manage. But this year I'm thinking about racing and many of the racing boats in our club use a free foot.

I'm assuming this helps to shape the sail better and allows you to adjust the clew easier.

But is there that much of difference between free or not?

And, is the sail with the foot rope usable out of the boom slot?

To make things more complicated, is the sail with the luff rope and no foot rope more efficient than the one with luff slugs?

[thomm225]

If you are just starting to race, don't sweat the small stuff.

Use the same setup you used last year for daysailing/cruising.

You'll have enough to worry about as a new racer without thinking about the small adjustments.

When you get where you are only losing races or positions by a few seconds, that is the time to worry about the small (adjustments) stuff

[Fiveslide]

Originally Posted by thomm225

If you are just starting to race, don't sweat the small stuff.

Use the same setup you used last year for daysailing/cruising.

You'll have enough to worry about as a new racer without thinking about the small adjustments.

When you get where you are only losing races or positions by a few seconds, that is the time to worry about the small (adjustments) stuff

I'ma disagree here. If you're racing with crew, you have plenty of hands and time to adjust the outhaul for getting the best shape out of the main. I'd absolutely bend on that loose footed sail. You don't want crew sitting on their thumbs or, heaven forbid, drinking all the beer cause you've no orders to give them

Edit: unless that loose footed main is all bagged out and only barely usable, I should say. If it's in horrible shape, stick with the other one.

[Bigjim]

FYI, everyone, I've raced before. Just not on my own boat. So, I'd rather do it right badly, then do it wrong, well.

I will have crew. So, that is not a consideration. I will be training them and would rather teach them the right way the first time.

[Sailmonkey]

The loose footed sail will be able to be shaped more readily with the outhaul, assuming it’s a better shaped sail than the other sail.

I’d sail with both and look at the shape of them both.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

FYI, everyone, I've raced before. Just not on my own boat. So, I'd rather do it right badly, then do it wrong, well.

It's all up to you, but I've won a lot of races doing it wrong well! (mainly by winning the start, and sailing where the wind is)

You better have a plan for the start and know which side is favored. That means which side of the starting line is the favored side and which side of the course it favored

Doing it right and coming to the finish late or last is simply not fun

I've seen lots of guys have all their sail settings set perfectly and sail slow. They had instructed their crews on the right way to do it .......... and while they were doing that they were losing the race

[Suijin]

It's not an issue when beating, then the outhaul is on. It's going to be more of an issue off the wind and most when on a deep reach as the slug-footed main can't be shaped as liberally.

A luff rope is a better than slugs on the luff. Better shape retention and smoother airflow.

[Jim Cate]

Aww, give it a break Thomm. The OP isn't asking for your philosophy in race management, he wants to know which mainsail to use as he begins his sailing for the year.

I personally have used loose footed mainsails exclusively since my trailer-saillor racing days, and think their greater flexibility is a good thing to have available. Doesn't mean that you must be tweaking constantly if other aspects of sailing are more important at the time.

But in this case, as someone else has said, the condition of the two sails is more important as a factor than the foot configuration. If one is clearly better, use it. If they are equal, I'd go with the loose footer myself.

And BigJim, using the sail with the foot rope as a loose footed sail may work ok, but likely will not have good shape in the bottom panel when eased a lot. The sailmaker will have had to shape the lower panel to go from foil shape to the straight line along the boom, and that limits the extent you can add camber in that area. Whether that is a serious detriment is hard to judge from afar and likely above my pay grade anyhow, so i'll not make judgement here!

Have a good season... you'll learn a lot as skipper, so enjoy the ride!

Jim

[thomm225]

If you are racing PHRF on a Cal 27 as a new racer, it's probably not really going to matter anyway so go ahead and play with your small mainsail adjustments

Enjoy......

Also, it's probably not the best idea to ask a racing question on a cruiser's website. You might try Sailing Anarchy next time

Cruisers want to arrive with their boat in one piece, races don't care about anything but winning

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Aww, give it a break Thomm. The OP isn't asking for your philosophy in race management, he wants to know which mainsail to use as he begins his sailing for the year.

I personally have used loose footed mainsails exclusively since my trailer-saillor racing days, and think their greater flexibility is a good thing to have available. Doesn't mean that you must be tweaking constantly if other aspects of sailing are more important at the time.

But in this case, as someone else has said, the condition of the two sails is more important as a factor than the foot configuration. If one is clearly better, use it. If they are equal, I'd go with the loose footer myself.

And BigJim, using the sail with the foot rope as a loose footed sail may work ok, but likely will not have good shape in the bottom panel when eased a lot. The sailmaker will have had to shape the lower panel to go from foil shape to the straight line along the boom, and that limits the extent you can add camber in that area. Whether that is a serious detriment is hard to judge from afar and likely above my pay grade anyhow, so i'll not make judgement here!

Have a good season... you'll learn a lot as skipper, so enjoy the ride!

Jim

He'll probably be too far back to learn anything unless there are lots of other slow boats at the race.

His Cal 27 with good sails and seasoned crew has a PHRF of around 200. A J27 has a PHRF of 126. Olson 30 near 100....

This is the reason to race one design as a beginning racer otherwise you don't learn a lot and can appear total clueless to your crew

You can adjust all you want while being at the end of the pack with no boat to compare your speed with.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Also, it's probably not the best idea to ask a racing question on a cruiser's website. You might try Sailing Anarchy next time

You’re not the only one here who races.....but the simple question was turned from one thing into another.

In the beginning, the selection of traditional or loose footed main makes little difference.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

You’re not the only one here who races.....but the simple question was turned from one thing into another.

I don't race. I'm a cruiser........in training


Just check my pre-squall anchoring technique (lots of scope)

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by thomm225

He'll probably be too far back to learn anything unless there are lots of other slow boats at the race.

His Cal 27 with good sails and seasoned crew has a PHRF of around 200. A J27 has a PHRF of 126. Olson 30 near 100....

This is the reason to race one design as a beginning racer otherwise you don't learn a lot and can appear total clueless to your crew

You can adjust all you want while being at the end of the pack with no boat to compare your speed with.

My goodness, you sure can jump to a lot of conclusions with no data, Thomm. for all you know his Cal 27 may be the fastest boat in the fleet, or the Olsen 30 could be sailed by a total kluge or the J 27 has a foul bottom... who knows! None of your rant seems useful to the OP.

One design racing is really a good thing, but perhaps there isn't a Cal 27 fleet handy for him to join. You really think he should change boats just to avoid a mixed fleet racing venue?

And you assume that he is such a bad sailor that he will be wallowing at the very back of the fleet with no other boats to sail against... seems a little presumptive to me.

We all started racing with minimal skills and often with marginal equipment. Some learned quickly and rose to good fleet positions, some didn't. Mostly we did learn useful stuff and had a good time. Those that didn't found other things to do... cruising or golf or croquet or sumpin'.

In short, your negative assumptions about the OP don't add much to the discussion of his mainsail choice... just my opinion.

Jim

[thomm225]

I'm just trying to let him know he's worrying about the wrong thing.

I've seen so many sailors spending hours setting up their boats perfectly..... sail selection, mast rake, prebend, etc only to sail over and start at the wrong end of the starting line which means their race is over before it has even started. Then when so far behind they will split from the fleet in hopes of catching up only to end up sailing against more current

This is the reason I mentioned that you do not ask cruisers how to race......

Not many cruisers have been on the starting line with 15-30 boats designed exactly like theirs and watched as they sail away from you while you make minor adjustments on your mainsail or that you are still worried whether or not you have in the right amount of mast prebend in or rake. or battens. Did you select the right ones for this race?

Maybe you have your traveler an inch or two too far out is the reason they are sailing away. Main sheet an inch too tight?

Nope, it was all fine but you started at the wrong end ..... or got blanketed by another boats sails

You learn fast that these adjustments mean little if you start in the wrong position.....

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

My goodness, you sure can jump to a lot of conclusions with no data, Thomm. for all you know his Cal 27 may be the fastest boat in the fleet, or the Olsen 30 could be sailed by a total kluge or the J 27 has a foul bottom... who knows! None of your rant seems useful to the OP.

One design racing is really a good thing, but perhaps there isn't a Cal 27 fleet handy for him to join. You really think he should change boats just to avoid a mixed fleet racing venue?

And you assume that he is such a bad sailor that he will be wallowing at the very back of the fleet with no other boats to sail against... seems a little presumptive to me.

We all started racing with minimal skills and often with marginal equipment. Some learned quickly and rose to good fleet positions, some didn't. Mostly we did learn useful stuff and had a good time. Those that didn't found other things to do... cruising or golf or croquet or sumpin'.

In short, your negative assumptions about the OP don't add much to the discussion of his mainsail choice... just my opinion.

Jim

Thanks for your support. We're getting way off base here. I am mainly a cruiser. However, please note that the Cal series of boats were well-known racers in their time. According to stories i researched the Cal 27 walked away from Catalinas and other boats in her class. We have a few one-designs in our yacht club. But the majority of boats are other cruisers.

Please note that in the beginning no sailboat was designed to race. First they were designed to move a passenger from one place to another. Then, they used the sailboat to move cargo. Once capitalism was invented, moving cargo was not enough. Moving the cargo faster than the competitor was the goal.

Eventually, as in all things, warfare got involved. The first war vessels were canoes or paddle boats. Biremes and triremes were designed to move archers and soldiers and to capture or ram other vessels. Many of these boats had sails on them. The faster boat often won. Look at the history of sailing warships. Speed was always an important aspect. Look up the history of the US Frigate.

Sailboat racing is outgrowth of improving the design of sailing craft. I don't care if you only cruise. Do you want to spend most of your time sailing? Or enjoying your destination!? I love sailing, but after 10-20 hours, I'd like to be at my destination sipping some cold brews and eating some tacos or something.

You may not care about a foot rope or free foot but if it gets me to my destination a couple of hours sooner, then I'd like to know! An efficient cruiser is a fast cruiser. What's so hard to understand about that?