Bronze sail hank sizing

[SSgtPitt]

This question is regarding a cutter rigged Cape Dory 36 setup. I'm sending my hanked on staysail to Sailcare to have it refurbished. The hanks that are on the sail are sized for up to 5/8" wire but the wire i have is 1/4". You can see in the attached picture how wore the hanks are. My question is - should i stick with the same size hanks or go down to a 5/16" size? What are the benefits and drawbacks of an oversized hank? The 5/8" hanks were a pain to get off the sail and although 5/16" hanks may fit the wire, they may not fit onto the sail.
Also, the lower hanks are threaded through a line and that line is held onto the sail with plastic shackles. Every shackle is broken. Why would you use plastic shackles? I'm assuming i need bronze or SS shackles.
Thanks for the help, i bought this boat with your guys's advise and input. You're my lifeline.

[fryewe]

That hank has done some miles...

If you have now, or plan in the future, to use a downhaul (a good idea, in my view...making foredeck work safer with hanked on sails), you might want to stay with the larger size hanks.

[SSgtPitt]

Originally Posted by fryewe

That hank has done some miles...

If you have now, or plan in the future, to use a downhaul (a good idea, in my view...making foredeck work safer with hanked on sails), you might want to stay with the larger size hanks.

Thanks for the advice. My staysail has a small boom and a traveler with a car and manual stops. It's pretty much self tending and it has blocks (pulleys) like the main sail and a single sheet to tension the blocks and sail. I'm kinda assuming these may be the original 1982 hanks, which would be pretty cool, but i'm not sure. I'm the 3rd proud owner of this beautiful boat.
I'll order the 5/8" hanks tomorrow, with a few spares....just in case.

[gjordan]

Yes, stick with the larger hanks. I just bought a set of hanks based on the recommendation for my wire size and they seem much too small. Definitely go with bronze shackles for those bottom hanks since there is a fair amount of strain on the bottom hanks. When you replace the line that runs through the lower hanks, try to find the best chafe resistant line that you can. The recommendation of a down haul for the staysail is a good idea. Best of Luck. _____Grant.

[Orion Jim]

Sailcare can replace the hanks for you while they are performing whatever maintainence you requested.
The line that you have running down the first few feet of your luff is a "jackline" which enables the sail to be dropped and flaked on your staysail boom without getting hung up on the staysail stay.
It's not clear that this was understood from your posting. You have a great boat. Enjoy it.

[SSgtPitt]

Well, i learn something new everyday; jackline. Sailcare just said to remove the hanks, didn't know they'd put new ones on. This is my second sail with them. I just send it and ask them to make it like new again....and they do.
The main sail is next, but that ones a whopper.
I ordered a ten pack of the 5/8" hanks yesterday. 6 for the sail and four to replace what i break putting them on
Thanks for the "nice boat" comment. Did you see a picture of it or do you just know Cape Dory's?
We're chomping at the bit to shove off and officially join the ranks of world cruisers. Until then, we're replacing pieces and parts to ensure we have a dependable boat and cutting our teeth in Corpus Christi bay and it's constant 20+ kt winds.

[gjordan]

A staysail is a cruisers friend, especially if you have a roller jib. Depending on the condition and clothe weight of your staysail, it could even have reef points sewn in and serve as a storm jib in all but worst conditions. Just a thought for you. _____Grant.

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by SSgtPitt

Well, i learn something new everyday; jackline. Sailcare just said to remove the hanks, didn't know they'd put new ones on. This is my second sail with them. I just send it and ask them to make it like new again....and they do.
The main sail is next, but that ones a whopper.
I ordered a ten pack of the 5/8" hanks yesterday. 6 for the sail and four to replace what i break putting them on
Thanks for the "nice boat" comment. Did you see a picture of it or do you just know Cape Dory's?
We're chomping at the bit to shove off and officially join the ranks of world cruisers. Until then, we're replacing pieces and parts to ensure we have a dependable boat and cutting our teeth in Corpus Christi bay and it's constant 20+ kt winds.

I'm somewhat familiar with Cape Dory's and intimately familiar with the Cape Dory 31. You have a very capable blue water cruiser.

[SSgtPitt]

Originally Posted by gjordan

A staysail is a cruisers friend, especially if you have a roller jib. Depending on the condition and clothe weight of your staysail, it could even have reef points sewn in and serve as a storm jib in all but worst conditions. Just a thought for you. _____Grant.

You must have ESP. It's my plan to use the staysail as my storm sail. Sailcare will let me know the weight of the one i have and if it's suitable for that application. Thanks for the reef point comment, i didn't think of that and will add that to my order.
I also asked them to provide recommendations and costs for a 70kt+ sail.
I've seen the roller furled staysails, and that would be nice to clean up my deck, but i'm also thinking my current setup with the little boom is probably more durable or less prone to failure when you need it the most.
My jib is roller furled and my main is boom furled. I'm replacing parts now so everything is new when i shove off.

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by SSgtPitt

You must have ESP. It's my plan to use the staysail as my storm sail. Sailcare will let me know the weight of the one i have and if it's suitable for that application. Thanks for the reef point comment, i didn't think of that and will add that to my order.
I also asked them to provide recommendations and costs for a 70kt+ sail.
I've seen the roller furled staysails, and that would be nice to clean up my deck, but i'm also thinking my current setup with the little boom is probably more durable or less prone to failure when you need it the most.
My jib is roller furled and my main is boom furled. I'm replacing parts now so everything is new when i shove off.

If you added a furling gear to your staysail you wouldn't have to do away with the boom unless you chose to. I have retained mine and I'm very happy with it. I would never want to be on the foredeck putting a reef in my staysail when conditions warranted it. I used to drop it completely when conditions warranted before it became a roller coaster ride.
Now I just reef it from the cockpit, just like my headsail. I still have a slab reefed mainsail but going to the mast and going to the foredeck are two different animals. I no longer care to be airborne on the foredeck playing with headsails.

[SSgtPitt]

OJ, i hear you loud and clear. As i am still a newbie and my longest passage is 800NM from Pensacola to Corpus Christi AND i've never sailed before, I read and als seek the counsel of those more experienced than i and in the end, always trust my own best judgement,
If i spend the $$ for a roller furler, why would i / you keep the boom?

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by SSgtPitt

OJ,
If i spend the $$ for a roller furler, why would i / you keep the boom?

When I furl my headsail I'm left with a self-tending rig (main and staysail). Just turn the wheel, no sheets to tend after a tack. Great for working your way into an anchorage or a mooring field. Also nice in blustery spring and fall weather. An easy day of sailing to start or finish the season. Staysail clubs are a personal choice, you either like them or hate them, nothing in between.

[SSgtPitt]

I love mine. The Cape Dory doesn't have a lot of free room on the deck for hanging out, napping or just laying out. That area where the jib-boom is looks like a perfect spot.....but I bought the boat to sail and travel to distant shores so I think I'd rather have the safety of that self tending setup than an even tan
So, did you add a forestay or did you turn the existing one into a furler? Do you have enough room in the triangle for your unfurled sails to tack through that area or do you furl them, tack and then unfurl?

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by SSgtPitt

I love mine. The Cape Dory doesn't have a lot of free room on the deck for hanging out, napping or just laying out. That area where the jib-boom is looks like a perfect spot.....but I bought the boat to sail and travel to distant shores so I think I'd rather have the safety of that self tending setup than an even tan
So, did you add a forestay or did you turn the existing one into a furler? Do you have enough room in the triangle for your unfurled sails to tack through that area or do you furl them, tack and then unfurl?

The furling unit (which I installed myself) was installed over the existing stay (which I replaced just due to age). My standard yankee and my large yankee easily fit through the slot between the headstay and staysail stay. I also have a 135% which does better if partially furled before a tack.

[gjordan]

SSgpitt, do you have the modern trend of all lines leading to the cockpit? I personally dont care for all that line coming into the cockpit and see no use for it with a roller jib, or any jib in a foil, but with a hanked on staysail I think that halyard and downhaul to the cockpit would be a real asset. You use the staysail almost as your first reef when winds pick up. After a few sail reductions, even if you have to go forward to reef it, you already would have it securely on deck and could return to the cockpit to re-hoist. It would go something like this, full sail, wind picks up, drop staysail from cockpit, more wind, partially roll jib or 1st reef in main , depending on point of sail or boats weather helm, more wind, roll jib in and hoist staysail and reef main accordingly, more wind, double reef main and go forward and reef staysail, but I would head down wind for the few minutes that it would take to do this. People will say that with a roller staysail you can do all that from the cockpit, but when you really need a storm staysail, you would have to roll the regular staysail out and drop it and feed a storm staysail into a foil while in rough conditions. Good luck with that idea. Many people will disagree with my comments, but I believe a staysail should be hanked on, not a roller. It is just another thought. ____Grant.