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LubDub · 18-02-2019, 11:05

Can anyone clarify what the official ASA stance is ? Can ASA 101 legitimately be taught on a multi-hulled boat eg. a catamaran? Reason for asking is that according to the 101 material this is certification is "learning to skipper a 20' - 27' sloop-rigged keelboat by day, in light to moderate winds and sea conditions." and some of the things they test pertain only to a mono hull. Further, on a recent USVI trip a very excellent and experienced skipper told us that learning 101 on a catamaran is not legit. Thanks.

Tornadosailing · 18-02-2019, 12:06

Having done my 101 on a cat, I can say that there was very little basic sailing instruction. We definitely trimmed sails etc, but a big cat doesn't lend itself well to getting a feel for it. Was it useful? Yes, absolutely. But I wouldn't expect to go in never having been on a sailboat, and come out of it and be able to hop aboard a Catalina 25 and sail it out of the marina.

I'll also say that since we did 4 ASA courses in a week on a liveaboard, I can't tell you which parts of what we did belonged to which course. There's so much thrown at you it all blends together. I did come away feeling fairly confident that I could dock, anchor, sail the boat, and navigate with some degree of competence. And of course I can pick up an errant life jacket under sail like a champ.

We only did that about 1000 times.

denverd0n · 18-02-2019, 12:39

Only an official of the ASA can tell you what the official ASA stance is. On the other hand, the title for ASA 101 is "Basic Keelboat Sailing Certification." I don't see how that can legitimately be taught on anything other than a keelboat.

If you want to ask the ASA, here's their contact page:
https://asa.com/contact-asa/

Montanan · 18-02-2019, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Only an official of the ASA can tell you what the official ASA stance is. On the other hand, the title for ASA 101 is "Basic Keelboat Sailing Certification." I don't see how that can legitimately be taught on anything other than a keelboat.

If you want to ask the ASA, here's their contact page:
https://asa.com/contact-asa/

FYI. Definitions, there being primarily two distinct types.

A keelboat is technically any sailboat with a keel—as opposed to a centerboard or daggerboard.

keel·boat Dictionary result for keelboat
/ˈkēlbōt
noun
1.
a yacht built with a permanent keel rather than a centerboard.
2.
a large, flat freight boat used on rivers.

A keelboat is a riverine cargo-capable working boat, or a small- to mid-sized recreational sailing yacht.

LubDub · 18-02-2019, 13:29

The definition of a keelboat would then imply that a Catamaran would not be appropriate to learn ASA 101.

Tornadosailing · 18-02-2019, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LubDub

The definition of a keelboat would then imply that a Catamaran would not be appropriate to learn ASA 101.

How so? My cat has keels. Being heavy is not a requirement for a keel.

Montanan · 18-02-2019, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by LubDub

The definition of a keelboat would then imply that a Catamaran would not be appropriate to learn ASA 101.

Catamarans generally have two keels one for each hull. Sometimes they will have swing keels inside the fixed keel which makes for more of a fin keel type vessel.

Catamaran keels typically are not heavily ballasted as the stability comes from the wide stance form of the twin hulls and and not the pendulum lever arm typical of a keel on a monohull. Catamaran keels are primarily to provide lift to mitigate leeway and are not primarily for stability.

Reference image below of a catamaran resting on its twin keels.

Some catamarans have daggerboards or centerboards and do not have fixed keels. Some catamarans have fixed keels with trim tabs.

There are a host of underwater foil types for monohulls, catamarans and trimarans.

LubDub · 18-02-2019, 13:55

I stand corrected regarding keels on a cat...I didn't know that.

Montanan · 18-02-2019, 14:04

Here is a link to a video of a catamaran being fitted with keels shoes; not to be confused with kitten heels which are a type of shoe with a thin, low heel that is usually 1.5 to 1.75 inches or less, but this style is more than just a low heel. Think trainer stilettos very popular in the 1950's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-9BrTVGW7g

Tornadosailing · 18-02-2019, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by LubDub

I stand corrected regarding keels on a cat...I didn't know that.

Fixed keels on a cat aren't very efficient, generally they simply resist (poorly) side slip and don't generate much lift upwind. A cat with dagger boards will generally go upwind due to better shape, and hence more lift, of the underwater foil surface. Without keels or dagger boards, you end up with uncontrolled side slip or leeway, and can only sail downwind.

Tornadosailing · 18-02-2019, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montanan

Reference image below of a catamaran resting on its twin keels.

Hey!! That looks remarkably exactly like my boat!

Montanan · 18-02-2019, 14:14

ASA 114 appears to be the kitty training class per the ASA.

It would seem that the ASA should correct their titling of their courses, with ASA 101 becoming Basic Monohull Sailing. Their specification of a Keelboat is improper terminology.

Link: https://asa.com/news/2012/06/13/cata...certification/

"sailing a catamaran is different from a monohull, and requires its own set of skills and knowledge. They handle differently under power and sail–so it’s crucial to be prepared with catamaran sailing lessons.

Enter the ASA 114 Cruising Catamaran Certification.

ASA 114, Cruising Catamaran
Able to skipper an auxiliary-powered sailing cruising catamaran of approximately 30 to 45 feet in length during a multi-day liveaboard cruise upon inland or coastal waters in moderate to heavy winds (up to 30 knots) and sea conditions. Knowledge of catamaran structure, components and features, performance under sail and power, boat systems, seamanship and safety, heavy weather operation, and emergency response.

What prerequisites do I need? Before completing your Cruising Catamaran cert, you’ll need Basic Keelboat (101), Basic Coastal Cruising (103), and Bareboat Cruising (104). This isn’t a beginning course–this is for people with cruising experience looking to take on the challenge of catamaran sailing.

What will I learn? Everything you need to act as skipper and crew of a 30-50 foot multihull sailboat by day in coastal waters. What does that mean? Well, you’ll learn all the parts of the boat and how to use them, you’ll learn the skills to handle the boat at sea, in heavy weather, and under power. You’ll practice docking the cat, recovering crew overboard, anchoring, and more.

Where can I get the certification? All over the place! More than 20 of our accredited sailing schools offer the ASA 114 cert, and they are spread out across the country and even abroad. Click here and scroll down to the bottom of the page for the complete list!

The wide world of catamaran sailing is waiting for you, and with the ASA cat certification, you’ll be cruising with confidence and in style! So give one of our schools a call, and when you’re anchored and relaxing on deck watching a tropical sunset, you’ll be glad you did."