Cruisers Forum
 

Go Back   Cruisers & Sailing Forums > The Fleet > Powered Boats
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login
Register Vendors FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Log in

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-12-2016, 09:18   #16
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,587
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

It's hard to pin down costs. If you buy a boat with good basics, good sails, good engine, good bottom, no water intrusion. It's quite likely you wont spend much on maintenance. "Nice to haves " or upgrades is another thing entirely.
Find a well found boat, make a list of what you want . Add it up. Then your costs will be small. I've bought two boats that initial costs were in the 10-20% of purchase price, but I did it knowingly. I've had others that I spent very little on really.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 09:18   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK
Boat: Westerly Storm 33
Posts: 148
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

I have had a 1998 29 foot Beneteau for 10 years. I don’t have to hand exactly how much I have spent.It’s probably in the region of 40% - 50% of the purchase price – but that’s over a 10 year period and it’s not been an even spend. So some years have seemed painfully expensive and others very good value.

I think the expenditure can be categorised as follows:

  • Annual general maintenance
  • Repairs to worn out kit
  • Improvements
The repairs to worn out kit include mechanical, electrical, hull, sails and rigging. The biggest cost was renewing the keel bolts and reglassing the area round the keel bolts.Other big expenses were a new forestay and jib furler, new rigging (every 10 years), new cutlass bearing (about every 5 years) and some new engine bits (injectors, starter motor and Alternator).Another quite big expense was new headlining, which was done on a cabin by cabin basis over the years and new upholstery and foam.

Improvements included a new mainsail, a new boom bag (I only needed the new boom bag as for several years I failed to take it off over the winter) and solar power.

If I knew in advance what I was going to have to spend on the boat, I probably wouldn’t have bought her. On the other hand the pleasure I have had from ownership, making repairs and improvements and sailing is just about incalculable.

Finally you just need to remember the acronym for BOAT -
Bring Out Another Thousand! And make sure you have it when you really need it (and from time to time you will).

Hope this helps.

Paul Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 09:25   #18
Registered User
 
LooseGoose's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 107
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

Welcome to the forum.

We recently (2 years) purchased a mid-90's 43 footer and have lived the experience you are getting yourself into.

First of all, you need to see A LOT of boats before committing to a particular machine. My opinion is that you would likely be happier with something a bit smaller, which will make a huge difference in maintenance, repair and operating costs. Bigger boats have bigger and much more expensive components, which in due time are more expensive to repair and/or replace. They are more expensive to dock, moor, fuel, clean, and more difficult to physically handle.

A family of 4 should be fine living and cruising on a 2 cabin trawler or cruiser between 36 and 42 feet.

....make sure to buy something that can easily be re-sold in your time frame. Stick to well-known, higher end brands, then look for the exceptionally well cared for sub-group, then pick your vessel and have it carefully checked out.

Many boats for sale are no longer loved or used by their owners, and through the experience of seeing a lot of boats before committing, you will gain sufficient knowledge to gauge the difference between a boat with a lot of "deferred maintenance", and one which is ready or almost ready to cruise and trust. In the U.S., good trawler candidates are boats just completing the Great Loop....By the time of completion, everything has been repaired and maintained.

The smaller the boat and engine the less it will cost to run and maintain the machinery. A good gently used trawler may fit your bill regarding space, and save you tons of funds versus a high powered planning cabin cruiser where every bit of machinery is stressed all the time.

Engage the best surveyors you can find....yes they will be expensive, but they can save you from a horrendous decision. I once attended a survey by a Detroit Diesel Corp technician for a friend buying a boat, that lasted 2.5 days at over $1k per day plus travel......but he inspected the bores, adjusted all valves, measured all temperatures, adjusted and cleaned all the injectors, aligned engines, measured engine room airflow and all fluid temperatures and then conducted a sea trial.....34 knots for 10 minutes on a 50 foot Viking with 6-71's....exactly as new. For comparison, my trawler has a pair of 3208 Cats, and the tech took 2.5 days to go through the engines and run a sea trial at 14 knots.....a bit over the spec sheet....yes. it will be expensive but you will know exactly what you have. A good surveyor will be able to answer questions such as "what might it cost to replace fuel tanks in a boat like this?" engines?, Barrier Coat? Props and Shafts? gen set? decks? windows?

Attend the hull survey. Make sure you watch as the surveyor tests everything, and listen to his comments. Record the comments, take pictures in support. Make sure everything works.

Spend some time on Defender.com or some other marine supplies site to get an idea of what things cost.....a new windlass....maybe $2k, an A/C unit? a water pump? anchor chain etc...and be aware that installation labor for anything can easily triple the cost.

In a nutshell, we were very very careful, brought 40 years of boating experience and maintenance to the table, and can report having spent a tad under $8k mostly on pumps, electrical issues, no work on major systems following Cat service, and only a genset service and new Bimini top and enclosure looming in the near future at a further $10 to $12k.

Hope this helps
LooseGoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 09:58   #19
Registered User
 
grantmc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: home town Wellington, NZ and Savusavu Fiji
Boat: Reinke S10 & Raven 26
Posts: 1,279
Send a message via Skype™ to grantmc
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

You’ve asked people that have boats what to expect to have to pay for maintenance, they’ve told you and you’re welcome to choose to ignore their advice. If you buy one of the near 30 year old boats you’ve listed you’ll certainly find out 10% is an optimistic guide. After 3 years you’ll look back and find 20% was a better rule of thumb. Some years maintenance wont be much but other years it will be horrendous.

You need to be realistic. Understand $1,000 buys you nothing for a boat. Actually $5K buys you only a bit more than nothing. If you can’t afford it, better to know now and buy an affordable boat. And to be realistic a 50 footer is ridiculous for someone who’s only planning occasional use without considerable experience. Would you have been safe driving a bus when you first gained your car licence?

Unlike most other assets boats are exposed to sea water. Sea water is horribly corrosive. Also there are lots of nasty things that live in it that see your boat as a nice home.

You mention the boat will only be used for a few weeks each year. Not being used is far far worse for boats than being used. Go and visit any marina and you’ll quickly be able to see that.

Someone above said but a smaller boar and learn. I think that’s the best advice. There are a whole heap of skills and knowledge you’ll need if you really want to keep your family safe. Unless of course you can budget in the cost of a qualified skipper during your trips.
__________________
Grant Mc
The cure for everything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea. Yeah right, I wish.
grantmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 10:13   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: SAnta Cruz 27
Posts: 6,825
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

There just aren't any rules that work well for predicting maintenance costs, except that you can save a ton of money if you do the work yourself.

One area which can cost a lot or a little is cosmetics. While the boat is useable, there are a lot of used boats on the market and yours may not sell until you make it look like new. We are talking about replacing teak decks, painting,varnishing, and new canvas on the outside, repairing any waterstains and revarnishing on the inside. These can cost 30-40% of the value of the boat if you have the yard do it.

As an example I took an 1983 Grand Banks 42 on the Great Loop--2 seasons and 7,000 miles. Biggest expense was fuel, but I had a drivetrain failure on the first day. If it needed a new transmission, that bill would have been $10k, but fortunately it was a broken flex plate which cost less than $1k. The boat already had the water tanks replaced, a new genset and a new turbo. I ended up replacing all the oil lines, two starters and two alternators. I tore down one main engine heat exchanger, had the props rebalanced, replumbed the holding tank, revarnished the outside teak, repainted the window trim, replaced a leaking oil pressure guage, resoldered connections in the autopilot, put new cable in the steering system, got a spreader rewelded on the mast, and a whole bunch of smaller projects. Doing most things myself, I think I spent on the order of $5-6k, and considered myself very lucky. I also spent about $8k on fuel, $10k on marinas and winter storage, and $2k on insurance.

The boat had been on the market for 6 years before I borrowed it, and in order to get any buyers to consider it, we had to repaint the topsides, revarnish the inside, and remove all the teak decks and replace with non-skid. The total cost for the cosmetics with a lot of DIY was $20-25k, and the boat sold for $75k.
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 10:50   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Salisbury UK
Boat: Wauquiez 43 PS
Posts: 62
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

Hi
I bought a 2001 yacht of 43 ft. I have so far spent almost £40k on her in two and a half years. Had I had the money at the time I would have gone for a newer yacht, but I did not so chose a boat that looked great, sails well and which the surveyor said was a good seaworthy boat. The surveyor unfortunately missed so much and, like you I had never owned a boat before so my appreciation of what constitutes a defect was minimal. As an example, the rudder bearings were found to be worn, because the rudder was at a slight angle. The whole lot had to be ground out and new bearings glassed back in. I had all the standing rigging replaced due to the age of it at thirteen years. In addition there was a crease in the boom the size of which was very small and it was difficult to see from some angles. Nevertheless all the riggers I subsequently spoke to said it was dangerous so the boom had to be replaced. The bow thruster had water in the gear box which the surveyor also missed and resulted in a new gear box. I could go on, but you get the drift. My advice is that if something does not look right, it probably is not. Get the best surveyor you can afford, and do your checks as well, keeping a detailed list of the things you find. Do not be reticent about raising issues you have spotted with the so called experts; they should be pleased that you are identifying and taking such an interest in the boat.

The best of luck to you and your family
SJFK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 11:19   #22
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

oxymo, There's a lot of Really good advice in here. Which is what you asked for, you can heed it, or not, at your own peril. And if you want a professional's 2nd opinion, read the article by Nigel Calder below.
If his name's new to you, he's one of the most well know, & respected sailors/authors who writes about the care & feeding of boats' systems. Google him, & also look at (& buy) some of his books via Amazon. A Refit Reality Check | Cruising World

Boats eat money, period. Also, when having your surveys done, don't forget to send samples of all of the engine's fluids out for analysis. Many of us use Blackstone Labs, including me. And I spent several hours at their shop, checking out the various testing equipment & proceedures. Including asking them lots of hard questions, to which I always recieve good answers. www.Blackstone-Labs.com You'd also be well served by doing some self-education, such as by getting schooled on surveys, & surveying. boatpoker, a member here who's a surveyor, has a good website in this regard.
Marine Surveyor, Port Credit Marine Surveys, Toronto, Ontario

BTW, With boats in the age categories you're speaking of. What kind of shape they're in, & what they may need repair wise, will be determined more by the quality of care which they recieved, than by 5yrs in age difference. And even most new boats have heaps of issues. Do a bit of studying on it, & what I'm saying will be readily apparent. And it's why boats & ships do sea trials, & shakedown cruises. Sea trials in the sense of testing out all of a boat's systems after any big events in her life. Or prior to undertaking any serious passages, or voyages.

Edit: On the costs, & percentage figures mentioned by others in this thread. Consider the length of time that boats are commonly in charter fleets for. 5yrs is fairly standard, 10yrs a bit less often. And it's highly probable that said numbers are due to how long a boat can be routinely used before it's in need of a major refit. Yes, on the surface a privately owned, non-charter vessel won't get used as hard, but a lot of her systems will age somewhat similarly. Simply due to the harshness of the marine environment. With things often wearing as much (or more) from disuse, as they would from daily use.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 12:02   #23
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxymo View Post
I wanted to ask the more experienced folks on this forum what potential problems could come towards me when purchasing a 46-55 foot yacht that was built between 1988-1999

I’m currently thinking about purchasing such a boat in the price range of around €80,000-150,000 to cruise the Med with it for the next 2-3 years with my family (2 small kids)

Assuming one is getting a surveyor who will check the boat and assuming that the boat was always well maintained by the owner with repairs, upgrades, engine maintenance etc., my big question is what kind of risks are there due to the age of the boat.

I’m obviously aware that something unexpected can always happen and that’s not the point of my question. My point is that assuming the boat is in a relatively good shape, how likely is it that there will be constant repairs to do and massive serious issues suddenly popping up (I know there is always something to do on a boat though!).

I personally have not owned a boat yet, so I lack experience here and to put it in other words, how much more maintenance issues and problems can be expected from a boat that is well taken care of but built let’s say 1991 compared to a boat that is well taken care off but built let’s say 2003?

Any advise or input is very much appreciated.
To give you an idea on what kinds of boats I’m going to look for some time next year here are a few:

President 52 Flybridge Used Boat for Sale 1989 | TheYachtMarket

Trader 52 Fly Boat for Sale 1989 | TheYachtMarket

President 45 Boat for Sale 1991 | TheYachtMarket

Marchi 50 Used Boat for Sale 1990 | TheYachtMarket

Kind regards,
Robert
A previous warranty manager colleague shared with me that a typical product failure curve looks like a bathtub. The day it comes out of the box, failure is very high, but it drops dramatically. Then there is a period of time of very low failure (of course zero tolerance is everyone's claim, but less than 1/2 percent is acceptable). Then nearing the life expectancy of the individual components, the curve will rise again, more slowly than it descended at the start. (Just like a bath tub.)

The issue with a system as complex as a boat is the life expectancy of the components, which of course is also variable depending on use and abuse.

- hull, mast and boom may last 60 years.
- engine, (I'm replacing a 40 year old one right now).
- electrical wiring and plumbing, 25 years. (If previous owner hasn't butchered.)
- electronics, sails, canvas, upholstery, 10 years (typical cruiser in northern climates, less in southern.)

So the best answer is, all boats are always in a state of repair. You should gauge your maintenance and improvement budgets (different things) based on your vessel condition expectations.

If you are going to buy it, sail the crap out of it, do as little as you possibly can, and then flog it for what you can get, costs will be relatively low.

If you are going to buy it, and strive to improve it for as long as your own it, and show off your boat ownership prowess to the world, costs will be relatively high. (If you're in the latter group and within my geo service territory, PM me. ;-)
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 12:18   #24
Registered User
 
ranger58sb's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 58' Sedan Bridge
Posts: 5,484
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxymo View Post
So you say the maintenance costs you had for your (probably new) boat in the last 14 years were 10% of the purchase price?
That would then be quite good I think.

I also can not believe that rule with 10% per year.
I mean if one takes docking costs, fuel costs and any other kind of expense regarded to boating into that calculations it maybe be more realistic, but impossible JUST on maintenance costs.

The boat was 3 years old when we bought. And yes, our maintenance and repair costs over the course 14 years now are probably approaching 10% of purchase price.

I suspect when many suggest a percentage per year, they often are including all costs associated with owning and operating a boat. (I don't know that for sure...)

Given some of the other responses, might be useful to understand what someone means by maintenance and repairs. I've included service on any system (engines, genset, props, etc.), annual hull and deck maintenance (mostly annual power washing, monthly deck washing, waxing, some bottom paint from time to time, etc.), annual winterizing, and related parts (e.g., fuel pumps, freshwater pumps, washdown pumps, macerators, some new hoses, batteries, exterior carpeting, etc.) and supplies (e.g., filters, paint, oil, and so forth.

That all includes labor hours for work I don't or didn't do myself; doesn't include my own labor costs, and I've been able to do more of the work myself since retiring. Still have the yard do some of it; too hard ( I'll hurt too much afterwards), needs special tools, need a clue (that I don't have), and so forth.

I think very little of that is age-related; more likely related to the condition of -- and the previous owner's maintenance regime for -- the boat and its systems when we bought. Some things can wear out over time, of course, but diesels (for example) don't usually do very quickly that unless neglected. OTOH, I won't be surprised if one or both of our ACs goes south when I'm not looking

My maintenance and repair costs (above) do not include what I consider upgrades. Added a swim platform, dinghy davit, electric windlass, inverter; bought a better dinghy, and eventually a better outboard; replaced electronics (~$25K, including labor); replaced some furniture; stuff like that.

One specific replacement is a bit iffy as to categorizing; I elected to replace our complete flybridge enclosure with new, custom ~$7K... even though we could have simply touched up the original had we chosen to do so. I thought the original design sucked, though, so complete replacement was a better option. Even if I included that, I don't think it'd make much of a difference to my 10% estimate.

Others may choose to rack and stack their own version of what's maintenance and what's not a bit differently...

-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger58sb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 13:15   #25
Registered User
 
patprice's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania
Boat: Swanson 36 in Australia Bavaria 42 in Med
Posts: 340
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

Sorry for being cheeky but have you considered a yacht. Generally a whole lot cheaper to buy and maintain and operate.

(More fun too, but I am biased)
patprice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 13:58   #26
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 8
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

Wow guys, thank's a lot for all the replies!
I received such a big amount of replies and valueable information in such a short time here, it is really very much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by patprice View Post
Sorry for being cheeky but have you considered a yacht. Generally a whole lot cheaper to buy and maintain and operate.

(More fun too, but I am biased)
In fact, the boat I really want would be a Lagoon 450, but these are still very expensive and even the 440 owner versions are really quite a lot of money still.
Our kids are also still small and my wife has zero sailing experience.
So I thought about it for a while and figured it may be easier to buy a motorboat at first as that should be no problem to be operated by two people, even when one is unexperienced.
This would then allow us to get into the boating lifestyle without putting €250k+ on the table and see how we all like it and if everyone's happy, the Lagoon 450/440 prices will still have come down a bit more in 3 years from now and we could then do the switch.

Someone recommended charter, but the thing is that I'm in the lucky position that I am able to take off a couple of weeks at a time and could do that multiple times a year, so this would mean that I could just cruise for let's say 3 weeks at a time, doing some basic working by laptop from the boat, then go back to work for a bit and then come back to cruise another 3 weeks and so on.
Charter prices in the Med are high and for example a Lagoon 450 in the high season is €8k per week.
Sure a smaller boat would also do, but even a Lagoon 400 is €5.8k in the high season and €4.5k in the low season, so that's serious money and if you want to go cruising for 3 weeks only in a Lagoon 400 you'll have to spend some €15k which is serious money for just the bare boat for a 3 week holiday.
So in that regard owning a boat seems to make much more sense to me especially since it's a big difference if it is your boat or just a charter boat which you have to completely empty out when you leave again.


Anyway, I want to say a big thank you again to all who have contributed to this thread so far and I now have plenty of information to think about and to read into.
oxymo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 14:13   #27
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 8
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmc View Post
And to be realistic a 50 footer is ridiculous for someone who’s only planning occasional use without considerable experience. Would you have been safe driving a bus when you first gained your car licence?
Well, yes and no.
The thing is that I have spent some 6 weeks on a 38 foot sailboat in the past and have been sailing on a 47 foot boat for 2 weeks around 2 years ago and did not find that one much harder to handle than the 38 foot boat.
I have also been on a Lagoon 450 for a couple of days this year and while it is a massive boat at first, I found docking it in the marina was surprisingly easy due to the twin engines and I felt really quite comfortable doing so on the second day already. Yes, it was okay weather and not too much wind, so conditions were not great, but also not terrible for marina docking.

Therefore I really don't now if it is really such a big difference in hadling a 50 foot motorboat compared to let's say a 44 foot motorboat and based on the skipper trainig I have done on the Lagoon 450, I can not imagine that a motorboat a few foot longer than that catamaran would be so much harder to handle.

But yes, given the situation I'm in, it may probably be wiser to look maybe for a 44-45 foot boat as that will be a bit cheaper to buy and also cheaper to operate.
oxymo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 14:32   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 420 AC
Posts: 33
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

I
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxymo View Post
I wanted to ask the more experienced folks on this forum what potential problems could come towards me when purchasing a 46-55 foot yacht that was built between 1988-1999

I’m currently thinking about purchasing such a boat in the price range of around €80,000-150,000 to cruise the Med with it for the next 2-3 years with my family (2 small kids)

Assuming one is getting a surveyor who will check the boat and assuming that the boat was always well maintained by the owner with repairs, upgrades, engine maintenance etc., my big question is what kind of risks are there due to the age of the boat.

I’m obviously aware that something unexpected can always happen and that’s not the point of my question. My point is that assuming the boat is in a relatively good shape, how likely is it that there will be constant repairs to do and massive serious issues suddenly popping up (I know there is always something to do on a boat though!).

I personally have not owned a boat yet, so I lack experience here and to put it in other words, how much more maintenance issues and problems can be expected from a boat that is well taken care of but built let’s say 1991 compared to a boat that is well taken care off but built let’s say 2003?

Any advise or input is very much appreciated.
To give you an idea on what kinds of boats I’m going to look for some time next year here are a few:

President 52 Flybridge Used Boat for Sale 1989 | TheYachtMarket

Trader 52 Fly Boat for Sale 1989 | TheYachtMarket

President 45 Boat for Sale 1991 | TheYachtMarket

Marchi 50 Used Boat for Sale 1990 | TheYachtMarket

Kind regards,
Robert
I bought a 99 450 carver 4 years ago. It has been practically bulletproof. Very little problems. It is a fresh water boat though. Makes a big difference.
Monepit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 15:55   #29
Registered User
 
grantmc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: home town Wellington, NZ and Savusavu Fiji
Boat: Reinke S10 & Raven 26
Posts: 1,279
Send a message via Skype™ to grantmc
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

Some really good quality posts in this thread. Thanks all for putting in the effort to answer the Ops questions so succinctly, even under protest. I thought I’d just add a few of my ponderings about the various costs of boating. The OP asked about launches so I’ve ignored sail boat issues.

I think the most difficult thing for people considering a boat is to make the mental switch from their experience with vehicles. So I’ll be explicit, when a car breaks down it’s a pain but you park up and organise a tow to get the car repaired. It can be inconvenient. But just like on a plane, when something on a boat breaks down you could be in big trouble. So you have to fix/replace things before they break.

I have always regarded four separate costs:

Cost of ownership.
This includes any relevant registration costs, insurance, insurance surveys, mooring/storage, memberships of boat organisations, security, life raft servicing, perhaps gas and electrical safety certificates for marina. May also be an electricity bill from the marina and/or weekly/monthly ‘boat check’ charge. Basically costs incurred whether or not the boat is actually used. Especially when own a boat in another country (as planned) then you’ll need to pay someone to do at least monthly checks.

A big chunk of money under this category of course will be depreciation. The boats the OP is looking at will all be well over that magical 30 year old mark based on his plans so what would we expect to lose against purchase price? Who knows what the Trumponomy will be doing then. But 30% is conservative.


Running costs.
Fuel, and all consumables for the comfort and security of passengers and boat. Mooring fees at other marinas, boat taxi rides, boat clothes, etc.

Maintenance.
All things concerned with keeping the boat in safe and reasonable working order. This includes periodic servicing of all boat systems; engines and propulsion obviously but also steering system and its components, bilge and other pumps, gen set, refrigeration, electrical, plumbing (sea water, fresh water (hot and cold) and black/brown water systems), AC, anchoring, boats tender and its components/propulsion etc, water maker, etc etc.

With respect to electrical there are two divisions; electrics for the boat and electrics for the crew. The boat electrics are essential and safety related. For the sort of boat the OP is considering the comfort electrics will be separated into both 12/24 and 120/240 volt systems. Two very different skill qualifications needed.

A moored boat needs antifouling paint and anodes at least every 18 months.

Most people do their best to perform preventative maintenance. For example I know my anchor winch is a bit tired, probably 20 years old and a tad rusty. Personally I really don’t want to have to pull a 50kg anchor and 100 mtrs of chain up (in a bit of a blow) by hand. So rather than waiting for it to die, because it will fail at the worst possible time I decide to replace it. Cost say $4-5,000 (fitted and installed professionally). But whilst I’m at it I might as well replace the anchor chain or at least have the chain regalvanised. And might as well replace the20 yo bower anchor with a more modern design. So my $5K job goes up another $3-4K (my choice!). And that amount, for a simple and seemingly cheap anchoring system is now getting up to 10% of a $100,000 boat.

And it’s the same with all manner of things. My friend just had all his boat’s thru hull fittings replaced. There was nothing actually wrong with any of them nor had any failed. But he felt they were all nearly 25 years old and he didn’t wish to experience a failure. And what sounds like a relatively minor job was actually a shockingly expensive job because in order to replace on thru hull the water tank had to be removed (a huge effort as it was all expoxed in) and another required removal of the engine. I don’t know what it cost but there’d have been no change from $25K. His boat is a 32 footer.

Then there’s the safety equipment that seems to always be expiring or requires periodic testing; flare kits, fire extinguishers, life jackets, first aid kit. I’ll add in here too, training courses. They’re not cheap nor easy to qualify. A modest set of paper charts is at least $1,000. Yes you do need them!

I believe with use you get to know your own boat and you recognise things are coming up for replacement. The boat seems to tell you somehow. But we certainly do not want things failing at the worst possible time.

Optional.

You can spend huge dollars on recreational activities associated with your boat, fishing or skiing or photography or diving are examples.

We all do this. We go to the local chandlery or boat show or a trip on someone else’s boat and we see something we like that we never end up using. I actually have a locker on my boat where I store all the goodies I’ve bought that are waiting to be installed/set up etc. Some of them I’ve had for years. But there is some good stuff. Does your family’s safety justify a life raft (for example)? No one is going to tell you that you have to have one. Except yourself.

No matter what you tell kids (and adult guests) they never seem to understand how to work boat toilets and they block. Unless you like extricating shyt, you’ll pay someone big dollars to fix the blockages.

So what does the 10% cover. In my experience it only covers the maintenance that I’ve listed above. It’s not 10% every year either. Tends to be 3-5 years of lesser amounts and then a big cost year. We all defer maintenance. For example my boat has a mast footer issue. It needs to be done and it’s not urgent. But I will get the work done next May/June (winter here). If I expected to sell my boat I would fix it with $20 worth of paint and it would be some other’s problem.

So a significant number of boats that are for sale often have (I believe) considerable deferred maintenance and the owners’ are hoping to find inexperienced buyers to take on those costs.

Seriously OP, if you’re only going to use the boat for 3- 4 weeks each for 3 years why buy, just charter. You also get the benefit of being able to go to different locations. I noted your post about the high cost of charter on the Med. Sure they're expecting to make money, but charter charges are a reflection of the true cost of ownership.

Also what if your family hate going on a boat or suffer seriously from sea sickness? I know a couple of families where someone in the family won’t even step on a boat ever again.
__________________
Grant Mc
The cure for everything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea. Yeah right, I wish.
grantmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 15:59   #30
Registered User
 
varkpilot's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Houston, Texas
Boat: Chris Craft 47 Commander
Posts: 110
Re: Maintenance costs/issues with a 90’s yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
There will be many things on a big boat. Some are expensive and time consuming of course. A partial list of expensive items:
-fuel tanks, ready to fail? How accessible?
-water tanks, ready to fail? How accessible?
-Engine, hours? Spares cost? Wear/blowby? (esp powerboats)
-Shafts and props (powerboats) If sat a long time, shaft corroded inside stuffing box, prop bent/vibration?
-Rudder (s), water logged, corroded shaft? etc
-Sails. $$$$$
-Rigging, chainplates
-Cored decks or hulls: Delaminated or wet core
-Keel; bolt on , need rebedding?
Any number of "bolt on" appliances or equipment is suspect after about 7-8 years.
If I may, there is one other thing that might bite you. Just before I bought my Chris Craft 410 Commander, a man I know was taking his 47 Commander from Texas to the Florida panhandle when the prop shaft snapped on one of his engines. Of course he came on in on the remaining engine, but the problem turned out to be misaligned engines. The one that snapped got far enough out of alignment that the prop shaft (monel steel) literally snapped in half. He had the engines realigned, replaced the shaft and cutlass bearing and it's been fine since. Something to think about, especially if you only have one engine.
varkpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
maintenance, yacht


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Monthly/yearly maintenance Costs of Living Aboard A Boat Oceanbrew Liveaboard's Forum 2 06-03-2014 06:17
Keeping Down Maintenance Costs for Cruisers ArtM General Sailing Forum 87 19-11-2012 19:09
Regular Scheduled Maintenance Costs? flatspaddler Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 15-07-2010 07:42
SaltyMonkey's Equation for Maintenance Costs SaltyMonkey General Sailing Forum 4 28-05-2010 16:48
Annual maintenance costs - 10% of value? Traveller General Sailing Forum 19 12-01-2009 13:43

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.