How Safe Are Trawlers in Big Seas ?

[ChristiGrab]

psneeld, that comment about limited cruising experience was to Cat Man Do, who made several erroneous assumptions in his statement:

In the real world, wouldn't you leave your boat in a marina and hop over the border into another country , get stamped, come back in and then leave on the boat when weather is more favourable? In the real world, can you be forced out into unfavourable weather conditions or are the powers that be more likely to give you an extension until the weather clears?

1. That every country has a suitable marina available to leave your boat in.
2. That every country has an easily crossed border
3. That it is easy to get a visa into every country, and popping in and out is no biggie
4. That your boat doesn't need a visa, just the same as you do. Yes, some countries do require boat visas, like Indonesia.
5. authorities are willing to bend rules for people based on a reasonable argument. In many places, rules are rules. Period.

I found his response to my specific example disproving his argument just as silly:

Across the ditch in Malaysia I know people who have been there for years and do exactly what I said.

True, that is the case for Malaysia, as well as Thailand. But, dude, do you really think that just because you can get away with that in Malaysia, you can get away with it anywhere? Every country has different rules. You would be surprised at how many countries aren't as flexible with cruisers as Thailand, Malaysia and the EU. In fact, some countries don't like cruisers and try to run us off!

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by ChristiGrab

But, dude, do you really think that just because you can get away with that in Malaysia, you can get away with it anywhere?

And do you really think that because you couldn't do it in Indonesia it is the same everywhere?

Perhaps instead of having a hissy fit you should have just said you were in a country where you couldn't leave the boat and do a visa run.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Perhaps instead of having a hissy fit you should have just said you were in a country where you couldn't leave the boat and do a visa run.

Most of us would have given an experienced cruiser credit for considering all the options before saying it was necessary to leave a country in inclement weather.

Jim

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by jkleins

Most of us would have given an experienced cruiser credit for considering all the options before saying it was necessary to leave a country in inclement weather.

Jim

Who is the experienced cruiser you are talking about?

[ChristiGrab]

psneeld, I believe he is talking about me, since I am the one who started the tangent about how boats sometimes wind up in bad weather due to expired visas. My husband and I circumnavigated the globe in our 43 foot Nordhavn, checking in and out of 33 countries along the way, so I think it is fair to say that I know what I am talking about when I say it is not easy to get visa extensions in all countries. Kosmos Travel Log | Kosmos is Greek for world. It is the name of our boat, and the scope of our travel ambitions.

[donradcliffe]

I'm ROTFLMAO, because I cruised Indonesia for 60 days before I even checked in--even got invited to the governor's mansion for independence day dinnner and entertainment. They are really nice people, and the harbormasters really don't want to waste their time making more paperwork with you.

[ChristiGrab]

donradcliffe: How long ago was that? And which part of the country were you cruising in? Here is an excerpt from the upcoming book:

"He, like everyone else we have spoken to, was upset about the decline in tourism; angry at the terrorists who scared away all the vacationers by bombing tourist sites.

He explained to us that none of the confessed terrorists were Indonesian, they were foreigners in the country legally on visas. Just like the 9/11 bombers had all been foreigners visiting America legally. The guidebooks had said that Indonesians were a moderate people that frowned upon religious zealotry, so this bit of information cleared up what had seemed an oxymoron to me.

The owner continued on, talking about how angry he was at the government for responding to the situation by tightening visa guidelines and restricting the amount of time visitors could stay. While it seemed like a logical way to deal with the problem of foreign terrorists, it also kept out all the vacationers. Now, the tourism industry was essentially destroyed."

As you hopefully gathered from the excerpt, it sounded like before the terrorism problems, the Indonesian government was welcoming of cruisers, but it all changed in a very short time. When I was there in 2008, it was tough to get a visa and almost impossible to get an extension. But, even so, we know the more remote areas were delighted to see us and would have never turned us in even if they knew we were not legally there. And we LOVED Indonesia. Some of the kindest people in the world.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I'm ROTFLMAO, because I cruised Indonesia for 60 days before I even checked in--even got invited to the governor's mansion for independence day dinnner and entertainment. They are really nice people, and the harbormasters really don't want to waste their time making more paperwork with you.

It seems it can be done, for a price

Sail Indonesia Rally
Please note that your Entry Fee does NOT include the cost of your Indonesian Visas or your Visa extension costs in Indonesia, any Indonesian Customs, Quarantine, Port or Marina costs.
Sail Indonesia

Extensions & Overstay Payments

A visa extension of 15 days is allowed upon payment of an additional fee, please note that the application for extension must be made prior to expiry of your visa.
Visitors that stay beyond their visa expiry date will be charged a fine of USD20.00 per day of overstay upon departure.
Visa Regulation

I reckon my engines or anchor winch would have come down with "a mysterious illness" and I would gladly pay $20 a day fine over endangering my boat and crew.

[ChristiGrab]

It is possible the government has loosened up in general since we were there, but I know that it was made abundantly clear to me and hubby that if we didn't leave on the expiration date we'd go to jail--period.

In 2007, the people traveling in the Sail Indonesia rally got to check in at ports that are not normally legal check in ports. I believe they got a lot of other perks, too, like expedited visas and cruising permits, etc. I suspect the fines posted probably are for the rally and not necessarily all cruiser -- the rally gets a lot of PR and it would scare people off if they saw "and if you overstay your visa you will be immediately arrested!"

As a side note, the local Indonesians complained bitterly that few cruisers came that weren't part of the rally, and the rally officials were corrupt and gave all the cruisers business to a select few instead of spreading the wealth.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by ChristiGrab

psneeld, I believe he is talking about me, since I am the one who started the tangent about how boats sometimes wind up in bad weather due to expired visas. My husband and I circumnavigated the globe in our 43 foot Nordhavn, checking in and out of 33 countries along the way, so I think it is fair to say that I know what I am talking about when I say it is not easy to get visa extensions in all countries. Kosmos Travel Log | Kosmos is Greek for world. It is the name of our boat, and the scope of our travel ambitions.

Didn't I read somewhere that you just started boating a little over 2 years ago?

[lorenzo b]

Wouldn't take me two years to learn how to handle a 43' boat, how long did it take you?

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by lorenzo b

Wouldn't take me two years to learn how to handle a 43' boat, how long did it take you?

If you are talking to me...what's boat handling got to do with claiming to be an "experienced" cruiser????

Sure.... I deliver all kinds of boats all the time...but knowing when and where to go has little to do with the actual handling of them.

[lorenzo b]

Two years at sea and 33 countries isn't experience?
You know there are people that have done a variety of things in their lives like run companies and raise families that don't find boating all that hard.

[ChristiGrab]

We've had our boat for 5 years now. Our circumnavigation took 2 years and we had virtually no bluewater experience when we left on it. But now we have 31,700 miles on the odometer, 5,100 hours on the engine, crossed three oceans and the red sea, transited two canals, checked in and out of 33 countries, and visited 110 places within those 33 countries. I'd say it is fair to call us experienced now. Maybe we haven't been boating as long as most of the people on this forum, but we've accomplished more feats than most.

When we were in Bonaire, we went to a party. The cruisers all bragged about how "salty" they were before asking us where we come in from. We said "Dominica." They looked at us in horror and said "That is a 3 day passage!" and all admitted they'd never been at sea for more than 36 hours! It was a weird moment for Eric and I to realize we were more "salty" than these people who'd been boating for decades.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by lorenzo b

Two years at sea and 33 countries isn't experience?
You know there are people that have done a variety of things in their lives like run companies and raise families that don't find boating all that hard.

And as a USCG helo pilot I hoisted more than a few "didn't think it was hard types" from the drink....even experienced ones just so you don't think I'm anti-newbie...

But just because you zip around for a couple years isn't the same as a lifetime experience of the same thing.

I've sat on plenty of "expert" panels with circumnavigators who made it cleanly around yet never capsized, fought an onboard fire, repaired major hull damage, etc...etc...

Yes they punched a ticket...but highly experienced???? Just because you solo cross-country an airplane doesn't make you an instant experienced airline captain of 40 years.