Yacht Delivery Death Traps.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by clakiep

Easy to understand psychologiclly. He is the proud owner, he pays the bills, but You are in command - he has to obey You.

I've done a lot of deliveries with the owner aboard. Sort of a training and delivery. Mostly, it's worked out well. Of course, since it's training, I involve the owner in all the decisions. Ideally, they make the decisions after we discuss it. When things aren't going well, they've always been more than happy to take my recommendations. I don't think I've ever issued a command or asked to be obeyed.

There was one time when the owner met us part-way, and brought some friends and family along for a bit of a pleasure cruise. Passing a busy inlet on a night watch, I recruited the passengers as extra lookouts. We had a great time.

[Johnno]

G'day Surfer Shane, I'm one of the Coast Guard crew who towed you back from abeam Tweed Heads to Southport Yacht Club. Departed base around 1100 and got back around 1700, a long tow at slow speeds in bumpy conditions.

I too deliver boats and always check them out before departure. About to help take a 12.5m cat to Tasmania and will be checking it out before departure. Loads of fuel filters, toilet repair kit, washers ofr taps, fuel cleaned and full, water full, etc!

[CFS Klopas]

Delivery of my own boat:

Surveyor did a brief sea trial, said the engine worked but was slow. Delivery was only 20 miles on canals, but the boat was only capable of 2 knots. That dropped to zero within a half hour. Lucky it died only a mile from a shop and I had tow insurance.

[jipcho]

Cheers, friends! Great tales! I have a few, too, but it makes me too angry to recall the specific problems and bastards that tried (successfully, one time) to screw me. The only positives, aside from surviving, are the experiences and lessons learned. I am very particular at this point in my life (67 years old), which vessels I will board, either as a delivery captain, crew, or guest.

[JC Reefer]

Delivered a factory new vessel that had been shipped to the states but never sea trailed till I came onboard. Skipper was a bay sailor and the second hand was a lake racer.

Rigging was so loose that the mast was rocking back and forth. I had to tighten it all up crossing the gulf.

There were a few Blocks on the deck that the factory neglected to finish and didn’t have backing plates or washers or nuts. After one flew off the deck I checked them all and 2 others would have seen the same fate.

The second crew was beyond useless. Worth a topic on its own.

The engine supposedly had 2 gears which neither I nor the skipper figured out.

All electronics took a dump for the second half of 14 day trip.

Discovered that the floor of the sail locker was not water tight or acceptable. It filled with hundreds of gallons of water and was slowly sinking the bow of the vessel. This was discovered about 150 miles from anything. By the time we pulled in for repairs the v-berth had come off the hall because the vessel was flexing so much.

So even new new boats have issues.

[Siberian Sea]

I do yacht deliveries and each time I checkout the vessel before leaving port. Yes, things do happen along the way and this should be expected, however a prudent and experienced skipper most always has the ingenuity to overcome 95% of obstacles and safety complete the job as promised. It’s a boat, and if something is not broken well you can bet something is about the break soon enough.

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by lockie

Seems like a sort of a rite of passage for many: buy a boat and embark on an under-prepared delivery trip. Have engine failure caused by algae or cooling failure. Call for help.


In many cases, write it up and have your story published in Practical Boat Owner or Yachting monthly. Bask in the publication of your heroic achievement.


Good on you for bailing out.


Cheers, Graeme

Thanks. Writing a story would not be a bad idea at all. Wish now I had taken more photos while I was on his mess. Have got a screen shot from yesterday that in his words sums up the owner's ongoing attitude towards me

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Siberian Sea

I do yacht deliveries and each time I checkout the vessel before leaving port. Yes, things do happen along the way and this should be expected, however a prudent and experienced skipper most always has the ingenuity to overcome 95% of obstacles and safety complete the job as promised. It’s a boat, and if something is not broken well you can bet something is about the break soon enough.

Thing is I never once held out to the owner that I was a professional delivery skipper. Regardless, I have been sailing my own boat solo along the same coast for a decade and worked the same coast on professional fishing boats. While I don't have any recognisable qualifications, I have well enough experience diagnosing and fixing problems as with the fuel blockage and about everything else on the death trap.

Thing here is the owner thought he could coerce a "friend" into heading straight to sea in dangerous boat. FFS, he questioned why I was packing a multimeter. Even turns out my suspicions upon boarding that the boat had been left to deteriorate after being submersed were correct,

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Good to see you posting again SS .
It took a 'death trap' to motivate you , thanks for sharing the 'adventure' and yes, great decision to bail while you still could.

Thanks. Glad to see you are still active.

For the last decade I have been sailing around on my little H28. The tranquillity has caused me to avoid a lot of the drama posting on the internet brings.

When her steel hull became too tired to repair, to keep up the carefree lifestyle, I bought a SMALLER yacht. I do now have a partner who is insistent we sail to New Zealand, so I might soon be looking for a serious cruiser.

[SurferShane]

Sorry I don't have time to reply to everyone's replies. Thanks regardless.

Hopefully my story will help others question what might be a dangerous situation. Even before looking at the boat I would be considering the owner's motivations.

Obviously this narrcistic monster just wanted to show me up because I am happy with my life on my little boat. Again from our most recent and hopefully last correspondence,

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by SurferShane

Thanks. Glad to see you are still active.

For the last decade I have been sailing around on my little H28. The tranquillity has caused me to avoid a lot of the drama posting on the internet brings.

When her steel hull became too tired to repair, to keep up the carefree lifestyle, I bought a SMALLER yacht. I do now have a partner who is insistent we sail to New Zealand, so I might soon be looking for a serious cruiser.

Well it sounds like a good plan - fair winds to you both!

And yep, prolly better for one's mental health than pounding the keyboard (like me ).

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Jono as 2234

That's an awful lot of boat for an inexperience and incompetent owner to manage. Just thinking about putting in a reef, short handed, has me running away. Will look out for it at the marina. Another pontoon queen I expect

"Pontoon Queen"? So the true tale about how he earned his money and the career path it sent him down is already circulating? While he wants to re-name her "Fought Knox" I am sure she will become known as "Knox Revenge"!

Noting, I would have totally avoided these sordid facts had he NOT sent me the message I posted about how he is in the million dollar club while I have a shitty little boat with no rudder. Which may actually be the truth. I am happy with my girl regardless!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

I've done consulting work.

When someone hires you for your expertise, and then questions your judgement? Walk away.

(Addendum - put in the contract that there is a ((significant)) deposit due at signing, and deduct any time and expenses when you leave)

Indeed.


I feel bad about the OP's experience, but one shouldn't just allow that kind of thing to happen. The client needs to be managed better than that, and if the client is unmanageable then one should never set off in the first place. If the boat was a "death trap", why did you set out to sea in her? Didn't you look her over before starting out?



It takes patience, but the delivery skipper in that case needs to himself evaluate the vessel and then, together with the owner, make a practical plan for making her suitable for the trip. Together with the owner, identify what needs to be remedied in order to make the trip safe and pleasant, something both parties will have an interest in. Going through the boat just like you would if it were your own and you hadn't used it for a while, and a couple weeks (or more) in advance, while there is still time to do something about what you find.


It's basic seamanship to not just hop in a long disused boat and go to sea. A halfway reasonable owner, however inexperienced, will understand that if it's explained properly. And if the owner is not capable of being even halfway reasonable, despite a competent attempt at persuasion, then yes -- walk away, and certainly before even starting the trip. That causes much less harm to both parties then leaving in the middle of it, which is historically referred to as "jumping ship".

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Johnno

G'day Surfer Shane, I'm one of the Coast Guard crew who towed you back from abeam Tweed Heads to Southport Yacht Club. Departed base around 1100 and got back around 1700, a long tow at slow speeds in bumpy conditions.

I too deliver boats and always check them out before departure. About to help take a 12.5m cat to Tasmania and will be checking it out before departure. Loads of fuel filters, toilet repair kit, washers ofr taps, fuel cleaned and full, water full, etc!

Thanks for your time. In passing I have no hard feelings about the tow line ripping out one of our big cleats then deforming the new anchor winch when it was the only viable attachment point.

Well you might get it now why hung up on your boss and had the owner call him back. It was entirely unfair that I was getting the blame for the conditions of the boat when I had had already been constantly arguing with the owner about the same.

Was almost amusing though that the GPS display in the cockpit was only showing a base map and no detailed charts. When I went below to confirm our position on the nav table GPS it was showing detailed charts, but not our position. Seems to me the backbone cable had been disconnected and the ancient GPS needed an external antenna. It was nearly as old the not functioning VHF or the HF sans hand set. Before we left I demanded he buy a handheld VHF. There was a toogle that said AIS. Again, who knows if it worked?

So the game was over for me when your boss asked if I could write down his number and I had to inform he we did not have a pen. Well we did have ONE, but due the owner's mobility problems it got trod on and was broken beyond recognition. I really didn't think it was appropriate to ask me in anger if "anything on the boat worked" when that was the point I was politely trying to convey!

Don't worry, my politeness with my "friend" the owner also wore thin. Check out the photos of the fuel filter bowl in my original post. I had no less than three heated discussions where the owner had argued the tanks had been cleaned and were spotless. Seriously the idiot even chastised me for bringing a multimeter along. We were going to live it up in air-conditioned comfort using an electric fry pan and kettle run by his big AC generator, which of course did not work!

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Indeed.


I feel bad about the OP's experience, but one shouldn't just allow that kind of thing to happen. The client needs to be managed better than that, and if the client is unmanageable then one should never set off in the first place. If the boat was a "death trap", why did you set out to sea in her? Didn't you look her over before starting out?



It takes patience, but the delivery skipper in that case needs to himself evaluate the vessel and then, together with the owner, make a practical plan for making her suitable for the trip. Together with the owner, identify what needs to be remedied in order to make the trip safe and pleasant, something both parties will have an interest in. Going through the boat just like you would if it were your own and you hadn't used it for a while, and a couple weeks (or more) in advance, while there is still time to do something about what you find.


It's basic seamanship to not just hop in a long disused boat and go to sea. A halfway reasonable owner, however inexperienced, will understand that if it's explained properly. And if the owner is not capable of being even halfway reasonable, despite a competent attempt at persuasion, then yes -- walk away, and certainly before even starting the trip. That causes much less harm to both parties then leaving in the middle of it, which is historically referred to as "jumping ship".

Maybe I need to re-word the title or hope people actually read the original post before commenting?

As above I never once held myself out to be a professional delivery Captain. To be blatantly honest the quaint little yacht I live on now does not even require me to have a Boating Licence. I have however spent my entire life around the ocean including time on various types of offshore fishing vessels, dinner cruise boats and over the past decade full time coastal cruising single handed on my old H28. I am also a respected surf lifesaver.

A "friend" wanted me to help him sail a yacht down the coast. A typical narrcistic control freak trap. First to show off his million dollar club yacht and secondly to have a scapegoat when things went wrong. Notwithstanding, I have lost people to the sea including one due an auto pilot failure on a commercial fishing vessel. Yes we had an auto pilot failure on this trip noting the control unit panel was unreadable. This owner's reckless demands really pissed me off.

I did argue the boat needed at least another week in port so I could ensure necessary systems were functioning and reliable. Of course the owner constantly over ruled me typically phoning the broker who sold him the nightmare for advice. In the end I was bluntly telling the owner "I don't give a f%%k what you think has been done" on the boat as far as repairs and survey went. I also tagged his mate the broker as "Don the used car salesman". Obviously I didn't care if he told me to pack my bags and leave, which I eventually did of my own accord. I have to say I now wish I took more photos of the issues.

Given the owner had no sailing experience and in my opinion had bought a boat absolutely unsuited to his lack of skills and medical conditions, I assumed responsibility for getting the boat to its destination safely. He also had a 73 year old lady friend aboard who I would not like to have been lost at sea. The owner did pay me, but I NEVER requested commercial rates or agreement. I find throwing money around like this is a typical narrcistic strategy. Also a way to lock you in from walking away. To be honest I didn't give a sh%t about the money. What I was looking forward to was surfing a big fast yacht down the coast. Did you notice my profile name? I REALLY DO SURF!