PIRATES - Gulf of Aden (Sunday 22 June)

[marlborosounds]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Anyone have any idea what it cost to operate a warship?
I don't think I'd want to be part of a small fleet sharing those costs.

Hi Gord,
Im new here but wish to throw in two shells worth of info. Lets see how much does it really cost for a warship per hour. The fact is NOTHING.

Why because your tax dollar already paid for it. Even if your canadian. You already paid or your gov did. Most of the ships in the area are nucleur powerd so there is no fuel bill to speak of or in the sense as we dino suckers know. So if everyone got together and contacted the embassies and CNN and BBC and said we are going and asked for some reporter to ride along. I promise you each nation would have some old pile of junk escorting you.

Just my two shells worth.
Marlborosounds nz

[CaptHead]

Last year a group of yachts transited that area with two gunboats as escort and the cost was 175,000 each. I have a friend whose friend was one of the yachts. It took them almost a month to get it set up. I don't remember what country's warships they hired but it wasn't USA.

As you can guess, they were mega yachts.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by marlborosounds

Hi Gord,
Im new here but wish to throw in two shells worth of info. Lets see how much does it really cost for a warship per hour. The fact is NOTHING.

Why because your tax dollar already paid for it. Even if your canadian. You already paid or your gov did. Most of the ships in the area are nucleur powerd so there is no fuel bill to speak of or in the sense as we dino suckers know. So if everyone got together and contacted the embassies and CNN and BBC and said we are going and asked for some reporter to ride along. I promise you each nation would have some old pile of junk escorting you.

Just my two shells worth.
Marlborosounds nz

Let's clear up some misconceptions. First, most of the world's navies are non-nuclear. Even in the nuke navies, there are only certain ships that are nuclear-powered, mostly aircraft carriers and submarines. The Russians still have some nuke battle-cruisers, as well as a couple nuke ice-breakers. A lot of subs and AC-carriers are non-nuke too. I would imagine if the RNZN had nuke ships they wouldn't be able to go into their own ports. So all the ships you speak of, burn good old NATO grade F76 DFO (diesel fuel oil). And they burn a lot of it. Besides fuel costs, deploying ships far from home-waters is a very expensive business. There are port costs, crews need food, and any needed parts have to be shipped across the globe just to scratch the surface. Governments don't have unlimited resources, and such deployments take a good chunk out of defence budgets. It would be prohibitive to run regular convoys for merchant shipping, which obviously has a greater impact on the world's economies - to think calling CNN would get a military escort for a few yachties is naive.

[marlborosounds]

Thank you for that lil bit of info. Seems a few years back when I was in the Middle east Brits & USA and a few others were floating around spending most peoples taxes. Its funny you say they burn nato fuel , yes a few do but alot dont, but the facts are that oil and boat oil is cheap in the gulf to gov's. The ships are floating around in differnt area's around Persian Gulf as well as ships going and comming from the med supplying other ships that have been mothballed in the gulf area for the last few years. Yes if a few wish to hire a private navy to escort to and fro thats up to them. Hell if someone wanted to pay me a million dollars to run the front and rear on a few boats i would go for it too. Seems most allow or place themselves in situations that cause problems.
Yes if people travel together up and down its much better than one on one. kinda like the old wagon trains in the West of the USA during the 1800's on up into the turn of the century. You go alone you pay the piper.
The facts are we are on the water, The only last wild west of the world and as the pioneers of old we sail and plow our way thru this world. The only thing about it is, on the ocean's you dont have a zilliion camera's like brit or cops like usa or nz or mx or the rest of the world. We only have common sense and each other. So i will hush on this matter. Just think about it.

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by marlborosounds

but the facts are that oil and boat oil is cheap in the gulf to gov's.

Are you sure about that? I read an article a while back (as I previously stated (I'll have to dig up the reference)), that stated the only nation that currently gives a discount (off oil market rates) to the US was Kuwait (& its only a small discount ). The US general that made the comment was not impressed, his tone "kind of" implied that the lack of the "oil discount price" was political in regards to the occupation in Iraq.

I agree with Lodesman above. The operational costs of the navy vessels (plus their onshore support etc) would be very expensive.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by exfishnz

I agree with Lodesman above. The operational costs of the navy vessels (plus their onshore support etc) would be very expensive.

Yes but so what? I am a yachtie dammit and I have a God given right to free passage!

While you're filling up the gunboat/battle cruiser request form please tick the boxes for fighter air cover 24 X 7, Hawkeye coverage and some refueling tankers.

I'll hail them on 16 and give the release order to shoot any suspicious boats I spot...

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Yes but so what? I am a yachtie dammit and I have a God given right to free passage!

While you're filling up the gunboat/battle cruiser request form please tick the boxes for fighter air cover 24 X 7, Hawkeye coverage and some refueling tankers.

I'll hail them on 16 and give the release order to shoot any suspicious boats I spot...

PS. Don't forget to also tick the option for the "submarines"

[Chiroeurope]

While I agree with the majority of the above posts, there is a real need to deal with this problem that pretty much ignores yachts completely. The cost of shipping through that area in Bunker fees (those that are used to cover unexpected rises in costs)(which in modern time is how the still very corrupt shipping corps make their profit get above 10%) is getting to where more than a few firms are now using the SA route as it is less expensive (insurance rates have gotten that bad) than the cost of fuel.

So, we are in reality living our lives (or hopefully soon will be) in a shadow of the society at large. We are non conformists. There are varying different views on how to deal with this problem and many of them have some validity (All have problem areas). The how of this is for the most part beyond our ability to change at the governmental level. How we decide to deal with this and the more common thuggery that is happening within ports and national waters is a different story and something we can to a larger degree have an effect upon.

Many of us have gone over this point and it's less than nice secondary issues (not going there). UNTIL WE CHOOSE to CREATE a body within our own social structure to be a face and to have a force of action from the members (this is very difficult as we are a very independent minded group) and get the larger sailing community interested, NOTHING of lasting change will happen. Do I like this reality, NO. I DO deal with it.

So anyone interested in a thankless job that will probably barely pay if at all and herd cats (us, the sailing community). While trying to keep a unified face (or the appearance of it) with governmental bodies and trade/tourism groups to get them to take us seriously? Than to work within our own communities (Cruisers/Live-aboards, Charter Sailors, Mega yachts to name a few) to take unifies action both to aid the communities we touch as well as to boycott those that seem to take no interest in working towards a betterment of the environment (not just the planet one but also economic and social).

Any takers? If so let me know as have some ideas as how and who to approach to really get it working, but it would be a very trying job (only reason I am even thinking of this madness is that health issues have pretty much forced a change of career option on me)

Michael

[frankdeegan]

What about hiring private security (armed) so a group of yachts collectively pay's for this service. cheaper option.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by frankdeegan

What about hiring private security (armed) so a group of yachts collectively pay's for this service. cheaper option.

I can't see where this option would cost less than a few thousand dollars per yacht - I'm guessing most cruisers would chance it, vice paying that sort of fee.

Kevin

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I can't see where this option would cost less than a few thousand dollars per yacht - I'm guessing most cruisers would chance it, vice paying that sort of fee.

I have no idea of the costs (I assume not cheap). But I do remember reading about this (on another site but can't remember where) of ex-servicemen telling yachties that if they didn't want to carry & use their own "tools" then they could ask about hiring someone that would carry & use "tools".

Originally Posted by exfishnz

I read an article a while back (as I previously stated (I'll have to dig up the reference)), that stated the only nation that currently gives a discount (off oil market rates) to the US was Kuwait

Here's the link about the article I was in reference to about the US military monetary cost of oil. I was incorrect in referring to a US General, it is in-fact a US Senator.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JE10Dj05.html

10 May 2008

With US forces paying, as of late April, an average of $3.23 per gallon for these fuels, the Pentagon is already spending approximately $14 million per day on oil.

When questioned about why Iraqis are paying almost a third less for oil than American forces in their country, senior Iraqi government officials scoff at any suggestion of impropriety. "America has hardly even begun to repay its debt to Iraq," said Abdul Basit, the head of Iraq's Supreme Board of Audit

"It's totally unacceptable to me that we are spending tens of billions of dollars on rebuilding Iraq while they are putting tens of billions of dollars in banks around the world from oil revenues," said Senator Carl Levin (D-Michigan), chairman of the Armed Services Committee.

Certainly, however, our allies in the region, especially the Sunni kingdoms of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) that presumably look to Washington to stabilize Iraq and curb the growing power of Shi'ite Iran, are willing to help the Pentagon out by supplying US troops with free or deeply-discounted petroleum. No such luck. Except for some partially subsidized oil supplied by Kuwait, all oil-producing US allies in the region charge us the market rate for petroleum.

Worse yet, the US military will need even more oil for the future wars on which the Pentagon is now doing the planning.

I'm not talking politics here - I'm only making an observation in-regards to the increased price of oil the past days. Anyone watching the news the last days will be aware of the Iranian missile testing & the military action language from Russia (re: US future missile radar in Czech Republic), of which, ironically, both these countries export oil

[GordMay]

After receiving $750,000 in ransom*, Somali Pirates have freed the German cargo ship MV “Lehman Timber” , after holding the vessel and (15) crew for 41 days, a regional maritime official confirmed yesterday (Wednesday, July 9/08).
The ship & crew had been held captive for 41 days, and are reported in good health.
The ship was seized at the end of May along with a Turkish vessel, which was released at the end of June.

* The pirates initially wanted well over $1 million.

The UN Security Council has unanimously voted to allow countries to send warships into Somalia's territorial waters to tackle pirates (June 2/08). The text of Resolution 1816*, which cites Chapter Seven of the UN Charter invoked in cases of threats to international peace and security, also urges all states "to render assistance to vessels threatened by or under attack by pirates or armed robbers, in accordance with relevant international law."
By the terms of resolution 1816 (2008), which was unanimously adopted June 2, the Council decided that the States cooperating with the country’s transitional Government would be allowed, for a period of six months, to enter the territorial waters of Somalia and use “all necessary means” to repress acts of piracy and armed robbery at sea, in a manner consistent with relevant provisions of international law.

Goto:
SECURITY COUNCIL CONDEMNS ACTS OF PIRACY, ARMED ROBBERY OFF SOMALIA’S COAST, AUTHORIZES FOR SIX MONTHS ‘ALL NECESSARY MEANS’ TO REPRESS SUCH ACTS

And:
ReliefWeb » Document » Somalia: UN SC condemns acts of piracy, armed robbery off coast, authorizes for six months ‘all necessary means’ to repress such acts - resolution 1816 (2008)

* Sponsored by Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Greece, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, Norway, Panama, Republic of Korea, Spain, United Kingdom and the United States

[GordMay]

NOONSITE Piracy pages: Noonsite: Piracy

Including Messages from yachts interested in forming convoys:

Red Sea & Gulf of Aden 2008: Noonsite: Red Sea & Gulf of Aden 2008

Red Sea & Gulf of Aden 2009: Noonsite: Red Sea & Gulf of Aden 2009

and more ...

[sailmatch]

As someone who is considering various ways of reaching Australia - I have found this very interesting. I have considered a lot of the options that people have presented but unless you are willing to take a chance - and it is a lottery in these danger spots but if you have some spare cash around I have just found this website which sells an electric fence for your boat but it's out of my price range I'm afraid! http://www.secure-marine.com/yacht/index.shtml

[marlborosounds]

With US forces paying, as of late April, an average of $3.23 per gallon for these fuels, the Pentagon is already spending approximately $14 million per day on oil.

Yes if you totally believe the goverment who lied totally about iraq that is true. but then they also pay $300.00 usd for crapper seats and $150.00 for a stanley flat edged screwdriver. So yes. If your gonna lie and justify it hell do it in style. Some more creative accounting.

Also if people would go together as a floatilla just as they did during the 2nd world war alot of this would stop. But we each wish to do our own thing. From the Goverment level down to the personal level. So once again this is a dead issue. The only reason I kno the prices I was around the ones who paid the bills.