Open warfare in Puerto Vallarta

[chebba]

Police squad ambushed and wiped out on highway East or town. Read the report at 16 police dead after attacks in Jalisco Interesting to note the comments on this article. One Steven G________ comments "Sinaloa rifa until the cops get that in there head they stand down and let the better armed cartels do what they do". "rifa" is spanglish and urban slang for "who's in charge". In other words he's saying that the Federales will be in trouble until they realize who's got the firepower and who's really in charge in the state of Jalisco.
When you first read the article you probably thought the Federales used the 50 calibre and rocket launchers to defend themselves but now realize that the cartel probably had these weapons and used them on the police squad. It's time to stop saying that there is equal or more killing going on in any innercity in the USA. In the USA we have the rule of law. In Puerto Vallarta you have the rule of the lawless Cartel. La Paz is also in big trouble. No more comparing the violence in Mexico to the violence in the USA. Mexico is a war zone with burnt vehicles on blocked highways and systematic organized warfare against the people and the state. Another report last week stated that a very large percentage of the weapons being used by the cartels are purchased in Texas. I don't think Mexican citizens are allowed to have guns so you cannot buy them openly in Mexico.
So.... there you have it. Our misdirected war on drugs and refusal to treat addiction as a disease have led to the overthrow of a government and the killing of hundreds of thousands of Mexican citizens. Why is it that we are unable to say, "We made a mistake. Let's stop the war on drugs, decriminalize them and spend half as much money on treatment and prevention and really make a dent in our drug problem." Portugal did it with amazing results. I would not call our results amazing. I would call them just the same old guys running corporations making money selling weapons, security and basically selling death.

[dpddj]

I agree, the war on drugs is a joke and a complete failure. Like anything the gummint tries to do. Follow the money - big pharma, self interest and politicians "collecting" their retirement funds.
And don't forget Fast and Furious - the current administration's efforts to supply guns to Mexico and blame it on someone else.

[zeehag]

how many tourists were wiped out in this
escapade.

[chebba]

Zee Hag. I respect you and the right to your opinions. I do not want to get into arguments or disagreements with you or anyone. I just felt the need to make sure everyone has a chance to read this article and this great online newspaper. I have to be honest though and say that calling this mass murder of good Mexican citizens and police officers an "escapade" is a severe disservice and insult. Also? are tourist lives worth more than Mexican citizens? You have said you loved the Mexican people.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by chebba

Zee Hag. I respect you and the right to your opinions. I do not want to get into arguments or disagreements with you or anyone. I just felt the need to make sure everyone has a chance to read this article and this great online newspaper. I have to be honest though and say that calling this mass murder of good Mexican citizens and police officers an "escapade" is a severe disservice and insult. Also? are tourist lives worth more than Mexican citizens? You have said you loved the Mexican people.

a legitimate and non argumentative question was asked.
HOW MANY TOURISTS WERE KILLED IN THIS INCIDENT.

YOU chose to make an argument.

for decades this kind of incident has been labeled LA VIOLENCIA
for decades this kind of NARCO activity has plagued mexico.

those who have been involved have been historically involved in the violence known for decades as LA VIOLENCIA have been involved with la eme or with other drug involved cartel activity.

NORMAL mexican citizens NOT involved with these iolent narco/ cartels have not been in any peril nor under any threat from it.

a woman i knew was involved in their badness and received a threat.
smart folks listen up and stay out of that crap.

seems nothing has changed.

narco wars continue as they have for decades.

involve self in the narco business and you will have problems.
remain out of narco business and remain safe.

it is the same in usa
dont pretend it is not. this is not merely a mexico thing. the wonderful druggies of usa need their substances to be brought to them via mexican cartel net.

so. why do you think my appropriate question to be an argument.
please answer it.

[Pegu Club]

Some folk fall for fear mongering, some don't, the world is not nearly as dangerous as the politicians, gun industry and media make it out to be.

[MonaOnR3]

My only concern is that in these post, Mexico is singled out, and not taken into prospective with everything else going on in this world.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by MonaOnR3

My only concern is that in these post, Mexico is singled out, and not taken into prospective with everything else going on in this world.

No doubt. But, the thread is about Mexico.

And, as to how many Americans have been killed in Mexico, The figure for 2011 was 120.

"Last year, a record 120 Americans were killed in Mexico, compared with just 35 in 2007. Most happened in areas bordering the U.S. But for the first time, a significant number of murders occurred in previously peaceful areas like Jalisco state, where 14 Americans were killed, according to a Houston Chronicle analysis of U.S. State Department data."

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...to-3518659.php

The world can be a dangerous place. But, it's the only world we have.

[zeehag]

AS narco business is not only a mexican thing, please elucidate as to number of those americans killed were involved in the narco traffic in some even small way and how many were random events, akin to drive by shootings in united states.
please splainme how this is any different than the historic decades old la violencia which has been ongoing for decades and involves corrupt officials and drug runners from other south american locales
and, yes, as mexico is usa' s southern neighbor and as there is basic hostility towards mexicans in general within usa, of course there will be sensationalism printed, AS USUAL FOR DECADES.
SO what has changed?
nothing.
nor has the sensationalist updating changed.

[jheldatksuedu]

Our government does not learn from past mistakes, prohibition does not work, not for alcohol or any other drug. One of the few things Hitler did right, legalize all drugs, give them away to anybody that wanted them, 1/3 killed themselves, 1/3 gave the stuff up, and 1/3 continued to use responsibly. But the problem of organized crime disappeared, that's the problem that really negatively affects us. All the crime to get the money to buy the ridiculously expensive drugs. Make it legal, tax it, have legal business dispensing it, etc.

We have a higher percentage of our adult male productive society incarcerated. More than any other country, probably more than any other in history. This puts another ridiculous burden on our society, taxes to keep all these non productive people alive and in prison. A top security criminal requires more than million a year to keep alive and behind bars. A major percentage of our taxes is wasted to do this. And then we find that 3% of personal property crimes are punished. It's open season on our law abiding citizens. All because we think we need to protect people from the demon of drugs, we can't protect people from themselves, let them kill themselves and be done with the problem. "We the people" are mostly more stupid than the drug users.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by zeehag

AS narco business is not only a mexican thing, please elucidate as to number of those americans killed were involved in the narco traffic in some even small way and how many were random events, akin to drive by shootings in united states.
please splainme how this is any different than the historic decades old la violencia which has been ongoing for decades and involves corrupt officials and drug runners from other south american locales
and, yes, as mexico is usa' s southern neighbor and as there is basic hostility towards mexicans in general within usa, of course there will be sensationalism printed, AS USUAL FOR DECADES.
SO what has changed?
nothing.
nor has the sensationalist updating changed.

I would agree it's all drug related. But, a lot of the Americans who are killed are innocent bystanders, more than involved in drugs themselves.

Back in 1986, as an example, two Americans from Fort Worth were in Mexico, walked into a bar, and were immediately jumped on and stabbed to death by members of Rafael Caro Quintero's gang (who were hanging out in the bar). A couple of months later, a DEA agent and DEA pilot were kidnapped and tortured and murdered by Quintero. No one connected the two incidents until the parents of one of the murdered men contacted a DEA agent and sent a picture of the murdered man, a dentist from Fort Worth. Who was a dead ringer for the DEA agent.

[wgoodbye]

Based on your example of 1/3 killing themselves, why don't we just have hit squads that randomly kill 1/3 of the dealers or users. I expect the other 2/3 would be less likely to continue to use drugs. Seems like a simpler solution. Genghis Khan proved that killing 1 will scare 10,000.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Godwin's Law has been invoked. And in the first dozen posts.

[autumnbreeze27]

I don't know about you, but I, for one, welcome our new cartel overlords.

[jheldatksuedu]

Originally Posted by wgoodbye

Based on your example of 1/3 killing themselves, why don't we just have hit squads that randomly kill 1/3 of the dealers or users. I expect the other 2/3 would be less likely to continue to use drugs. Seems like a simpler solution. Genghis Khan proved that killing 1 will scare 10,000.

If people are stupid enough to use drugs, by all means allow then to do it, if they kill themselves, chalk it up to the process of natural selection. There is a huge difference between random killing and not stopping a person from doing harm to themselves. We do not need to be our brother's keeper.