Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[SabreKai]

I would put it to all of you that no matter what, Its none of your business. If you want to mollycoddle your child and keep them all snug and warm from cradle to mid-twenties, do so. As for anyone elses child, I would suggest that you mind your own business. I won't tell you how to raise your kid if you don't tell me how to raise mine.


Sabre

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Whose going to pay for the rescue? Why oh why are we so obsessed with the money here? With all the trillions wasted on wars, bailouts, handouts, corporate give-away, and on and on ... why do so many get their panties in a wad over the cost of a rescue? Its so minuscule when you stop to think about it. Is it really the money or an underlying resentment like the people who don't want to pay for public education because they don't have any kids.

From my perspective it's just about taking responsibility for ones actions and the results of those actions part of which has placed a financial burden on others. So yeah, part of taking responsibility is being financially responsible.
The Sunderlands seem to be the sort that would be responsible and do the right thing.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Do you know of any insurers who would accept that risk? For that matter, are there any sailors who could afford the premium if such an insurer could be found?

TaoJones

Tao guessed right - I do not know of any. So, for the time being it is just "rescue all" rule, even if they put themselves in the (rescue) position on purpose and they participate in purely money-driven enterprises. If they make it, they make money, if they don't ... well, they just press the button and the taxpayer pays for someone else's fancies.

barnie

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Kanani

Have you ever had a blow out on your car?...... Is that blow-out a failure of the driver?? In some cases, the answer would be yes, if the tires were lacking, preparation was poor or the driver was careless..this clearly was not the case here.

Can't argue, do not have a car. Ask people in the caravan forum perhaps you get the right answer there.

Originally Posted by Kanani

Yes.....I live in a world that very few that post on this forum have ever known. Therefore I would expect few to understand what really transpired here.

Please name the lucky few.

Originally Posted by Kanani

BTW......how many miles have you logged in the Southern Ocean? My guess would be....none.....

I have never sailed South of 60 degrees. I know only few who did. I do not think the rescue was there, I think it was somewhere in the Southern Indian Ocean.

You guessed right, if completely of the point.

Southern Ocean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Kanani

Had her equipment not failed, there is little doubt that her goal would have been complete.

The point is, it had.

Originally Posted by Kanani

An incomplete mission is not always a failure.

Apparently, it is not in "a world that very few that post on this forum have ever known." Elsewhere, it is.

Cheers,
barnie

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by hummingway

So ... next winter we can expect you to be transiting those waters? We can expect a record setting attempt from you?

Those of you who think this was such a great idea it begs the question, why aren't you doing it?

How funny. This shows one of the hazard of direct attacks on the internet, where you really don't know who you are attacking. In my case, it would be a cause for laughter if we were all at a table over drinks, and someone posed this question to me.

I am the very last person that would undertake to do such a voyage, and I have no personal interest in doing it myself - let alone that I am old and weakened, and in no way capable.

So no Hummingbird, you won't see me out there next winter or summer. I have no sights on any records. I really just try to survive from day to day so I can keep working to pay bills. On a good day, I like to get out and enjoy the sun and the wind. Sorry to be such a disappointment to you, but I am in no way your worthy adversary.

Jim
~

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Jim D

I am the very last person that would undertake to do such a voyage, and I have no personal interest in doing it myself - let alone that I am old and weakened, and in no way capable.

You are a member of a very large club, and it has nothing to do with being old or incapable. This is also separate and apart from antagonism toward the age, gender, parents, routing, equipment, experience, seamanship and publicity of the people who set off on solo, nonstop, unassisted circumnavigations. This is Cruisers Forum and at least part of the general hostility toward such adventures is that they represent the antithesis of cruising. Unless you're in a race or have a chance at a record, it is a wasted circumnavigation.

Many of us would like to circumnavigate - leisurely, with a partner, for 5 years, or forever, and with as many stops in exotic places as possible. I don't know anyone who would want to make an independent, solo, nonstop, unassisted circumnavigation in a conventional sailboat.

[billgow]

Originally Posted by Ahnlaashock

"1) My children are grown, but if you ask me if I would rather have seen one of them fall trying to reach their dreams, rather than never pursuing them, I would have to speak in respectful remembrance of their attempt. Given that one of them has returned from Iraq, and may have to go to Afghanistan yet, I do not make that statement lightly or without thought.
I am 51, and I am disabled, but I would change places with this young lady in a heart beat, and I envy her.
I believe her parents have done her no disservice in preparing her and then letting her go when it came her time. Sometimes, the scars are more precious than the trophies.

I love this aspect of the discussion. I respect individualism, determination, enterprise, ingenuity, integrity, self-reliance ... All necessary components of one who successfully pursues their dreams.

I don’t know all there is to know about this event and I doubt anyone else on this board or any other does either. I will not speculate about any of it.

I will say this, and it may or may not apply; Anyone who ventures into something like this and feels they are entitled to rescue while not being fully prepared for the challenge should be ready to face the consequences. This is what natural selection is all about. The weak and stupid fall to forces they haven’t contemplated and prepared for.

If it’s discovered that Abby was pushed by her sponsors, we all have recourse, don’t utilize them or their services, ever again. Maybe the threat of this retaliation would take a little leverage out of these ventures. If someone really wanted to do something like this even without corporate sponsors, they’d find a way. Money is no objective to one who is honestly driven.

[Bill Lee]

However much I am against sending younger and younger people into dangerous situations (take your pick) I wouldn't for a minute deny anyone (idiot or brilliant, young or old) a rescue. Can you imagine the scenario: a mayday is issued and a rescue vessel sent. The rescue vessel approached the vessel in trouble but BEFORE rescue is given the following questions are asked:
1) do you have insurance?
2) how old are you?
3) do you know what you're doing?
4) Can your parents afford to pay for this?
5).... you get the drift....

[Noztradamus]

Originally Posted by surfingminniwinni

Now I get it! Its all Jessica's fault. Yes and that was a well orchestrated masterstroke hitting the freighter

That's what some geezer named Michael Carr-Gregg says Worries over Watson's legacy "I worry this may encourage even younger children to emulate her feat"

Apparently teen sailors are going to be asking WWJD? (as if that's a bad thing)

[FLKokopelli]

I'm glad this young woman is safe..it's a shame her vessel didn't support her dream.

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Kanani

I'm not sure where you think all the "Fame & Fortune" comes from.

Kanani, you probably have more Southern Ocean experience than anyone on this board and I often agree with or at least defer to your opinion. But with respect to Abby or more likely, her handlers, the "fame and fortune" campaign is undeniable. Her voyage was promoted and commercialized long before she set sail. Raising money to finance a voyage is one thing. But:

She has multiple sponsors - all of whom hope to capitalize. She is selling Abby footware, T-shirts, and other memorabilia. She has been working on her book all along. She has at least 4 web sites:

Abby Sunderland, 16 Years Old, Sailor, Departs Marina Del Rey, CA January 23, 2010, Jessica Watson, Mike Perham, Zac Sunderland, Solo, Unassisted, Non-Stop, Circumnavigation, World Records

Abby Sunderland | Abigail Sunderland | Wild Eyes | Youngest Solo Circumnavigator | Shoecity.com Sponsor

Abby Sunderland | Abby16 | Official Products | Hand Painted Shoes Boots Sandals and T-Shirts

http://luckykattv.com/joomla/index.p...d=68&Itemid=80

And, of course, the latest fund raiser:

Help Save Abby Sunderland's Boat Wild Eyes | Abigail Sunderland

[FLKokopelli]

We seem to be losing our sights here... even if she is a product of a make money scheme. I am glad the young woman is alive. As I mourn for any life lost. I look forward to knowing one has been saved to live another day..Let's
get out there and cruise..I know I plan to sail away again soon...let those dock lines go!!!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Kanani

........another "Arm-chair sailor"...

Never sailed the Southern Ocean, but I've never set fire to my testicles either, but based on my own experiences I know sufficient about fire not to cover my genitals with gasoline - whilst smoking. (And I knew all that even before the time I set fire to my head. For a bet ).

So, having established my (armchair ) credentials...........


IMO Abby perfectly entitled to be out there in a 40' boat. or on a lilo in a bikini covered in custard. Mmmmmmm. Custard And on a personal note whilst I wish her no harm, would not care much whether she had drowned or succeeded. Either way I would (and will) forget all about her 5 minutes after the event is finished. Same for the Aussie Miley Cyrus Unless either of them (or both ) take Hugh Heffners shilling And from a business perspective I wish them both well in milking the events for all they are worth Just don't expect me to contribute any cash.

In any event I hope that both have learnt at least 1 important lesson from their adventures - that cash (and a bit of C list "fame" ) isn't worth dying for. A lesson they may wish to pass onto.............their parents.

For the parents on the other hand (and those who financed her) I think reasonable for them to face at least investigation from their home authorities for reckless child endangerment.........whether further action (jail time ) is merited would depend on the results of the investigation...........it may well be that her adventure was not so reckless, but my gut says that although not the same as strapping a 3yo child to a home made rocket - it ain't sending her to Disneyland either.........and she ain't doing any of this on her own so someone is sending her. and is therefore responsible / culpable........with choices come consequences. For parents as well as child.

And FWIW I don't see that anything went unexpectedly wrong.......you take a high powered racing vehicle (sea or land) onto a course and it is no surprise that things break. That's simply the price of being in a high powered racing vehicle - even if you are not running it at full power. I make no criticism of anyone making that choice. Just got to expect a higher chance of failure.

..........that's why Jessica (and most others not in a race) choose something more staid. and pay the price in speed. and gain by far less (but not zero) likelihood of needing to be rescued.

Be interesting to hear their views on it all.............in 20 years time.


The above is my opinion. not aimed at anyone. Opinions may vary - but I don't give a sh#t. honestly

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by FLKokopelli

We seem to be losing our sights here... even if she is a product of a make money scheme. I am glad the young woman is alive. As I mourn for any life lost. I look forward to knowing one has been saved to live another day..Let's
get out there and cruise..I know I plan to sail away again soon...let those dock lines go!!!

I have no problem with the profit motive. It is simply the 21st Century version of something which dates back to Joshua Slocum. I do have a problem with denying it or pretending that it doesn't exist in Abby's handlers case.

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Just don't expect me to contribute any cash.

So, David, does this mean that we can't count on you for the Save Wild Eyes campaign?

Help Save Abby Sunderland's Boat Wild Eyes | Abigail Sunderland