Prepping to replace my rigging, tips and tricks?

[Ryban]

I got 38 meters of 6mm from the rigger today, and have Sta-Lok eye and threaded terminals on their way. I'm planning on replacing both cap shrouds and all 4 lowers. The forestay is new as of April of this year, and the backstay appears in sound condition, but I may replace it after I finish the shrouds.

Anyway, I'll be doing this job on anchor. I feel very comfortable doing the lowers one by one, but for the cap shrouds I am looking for advice. My understanding is that I should take a halyard, run it to the existing chain plate (skipping the spreader, presumably?), and crank it down on a winch. Should I attach a block to the chainplate so I can lead the halyard back to one of my cockpit winches?

I'm guessing this should be the main halyard, and not the headsail halyard, as that one would pull tension on the raised foresail (furling sail).

Should I loosen the opposing cap shroud at all during this process?

Any other tips?

[SVTatia]

Someone is climbing the mast right? Its doable but is it worth the risk?
Give some thoughts on how you are going up to release at the mast head, release at the spreader and have a backup halyard for safety.
You'll be using the existing wire to measure and cut the new one, so whoever is going up will probably need to come down to pickup the new wire, unless you have yet another halyard to take the wire up to the person aloft.

[Ryban]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Someone is climbing the mast right? Its doable but is it worth the risk?
Give some thoughts on how you are going up to release at the mast head, release at the spreader and have a backup halyard for safety.
You'll be using the existing wire to measure and cut the new one, so whoever is going up will probably need to come down to pickup the new wire, unless you have yet another halyard to take the wire up to the person aloft.

It's just going to be me.

I always use a back-up halyard for climbing the mast, but one of the halyards is going to be tied up to substitute for the cap shroud. I could still use it as a back-up, I suppose. I might go up in advance and rig a line somewhere to act as a new back-up line so that I don't have to use the same halyard that I'm using to replace the cap shroud.

I'll be going up and down a number of times. Up to take the wire down, measure, cut the new one, and then up again to put the new one in, down to tension and switch the halyard to the other side, then back up to drop the other shroud and put the new one in.

I'd say up and down 4 times if things go well. But that never happens.

[roverhi]

No problems just using a halyard tightened with its normal winch. The halyard doesn't have to be super tight. Have been to the mast head more than 10 times with one of the cap shrouds/stays removed and a halyard substituting in rerigging the boat. No need to loosen the opposing wire. Biggest problem will be power boats at max wake speed if there is a lot of traffic where you'll be anchored. Fabricating the shrouds would be a lot easier with the in a marina with a dock to lay out the wire.

Use an ATN Mast Climber to get up and down with a Kleimheist/Prusik knotted line for a safety line as I usually work solo. When I replaced the headstay with its roller furler went up to the mast head 7 times in a morning. Felt I earned a beer after that many trips up and down the mast. If you have an SO who will hang out while you are working aloft, it will save a lot of trips up and down the mast IF they will put things that you forgot in a bucket to be hauled up on another line/halyard.

[Jim Cate]

Ryban, in my experience, all with larger boats than yours, it is pretty necessary to have some place to lay out the wires for measuring and assembly. Trying to do it on deck would be really hard, accuracy is important!

Also, IIRC your mast is deck stepped, and deck stepped masts need good support when shrouds are removed. If your halyards are not low stretch material, be sure to load up the one that you use when doing the caps.

As for the number of trips aloft, the minimum will be two trips per wire, will it not? Once to remove, once to install the new one.

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Ryban,

I would heartily recommend you find a marina where you can stretch out the wires on the dock, for measuring and assembly. Also, and perhaps even more important, it will get you out of wake zones. All you need is one medium wake, and your mast will wobble like limp spaghetti. This can be quite an eye opener. At any rate, there is no way at anchor to guarantee that it will be wake free. Your stretchy polyester halyards are not really powerful substitutes for your wire. And it doesn't go through the spreader tip, so the mast is not laterally braced when using a halyard to substitute for the soon to be released cap shroud. Think also, about how you're going to assure the wire doesn't come down in the water instead of on the boat. It is a job where having an offsider to help would be a good idea.

Another comment, I think you're going to need to take the headsail off and stow it below for this job. I think you will need to use its halyard. When it comes time to do the backstay, you are going to need to ease off on the forestay's turnbuckle, or the new back stay will be very difficult to hook up. We had to replace a broken forestay one time, when we were on a mooring. We needed to use both spinnaker halyards to substitute for it, and ease the backstay tension all the way. You'll find, as you start doing the job, that the wire tension you can get with a turnbuckle to tighten it is quite a bit more than you can make happen with a halyard and the winch.

Ann

[Ryban]

Very helpful advice all around, thank you.

I'll do the measuring and probably also the cutting on land. There's a boat yard near where I'm going to be anchored for this job. I couldn't imagine doing the measurements accurately on the boat.

Taking the headsail down is a good idea, and easy enough, so I'll take that advice.

My halyards are just double braided polyester, and pretty new. I think they're relatively stretchy still. Another option I have is to use some Dyneema I have on hand that I bought for purposes like this, or as emergency stays. I've got both 6 and 8mm, though I don't know if I have a length long enough to substitute a halyard temporarily.

One question I have is where I need to be tying off the halyard on deck. Ideally I'd use the same chainplate as the cap shroud, but there might be interference issues both at the U-bolt, and at the spreader (see photos). I could use one of the lower shroud's u-bolts instead, but the force would be slight off-axis.

Yeah, I need a new Grenada flag.

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by Ryban

I got 38 meters of 6mm from the rigger today, and have Sta-Lok eye and threaded terminals on their way. I'm planning on replacing both cap shrouds and all 4 lowers. The forestay is new as of April of this year, and the backstay appears in sound condition, but I may replace it after I finish the shrouds.



Anyway, I'll be doing this job on anchor. I feel very comfortable doing the lowers one by one, but for the cap shrouds I am looking for advice. My understanding is that I should take a halyard, run it to the existing chain plate (skipping the spreader, presumably?), and crank it down on a winch. Should I attach a block to the chainplate so I can lead the halyard back to one of my cockpit winches?



I'm guessing this should be the main halyard, and not the headsail halyard, as that one would pull tension on the raised foresail (furling sail).



Should I loosen the opposing cap shroud at all during this process?



Any other tips?

I originally rigged my mast (which was raised with a crane), and held it in place solely with low stretch ropes to the 4 corners of my self built trimaran. This allowed me to measure for her first ever set of 12 wires, from a bosun’s chair.

It was doable, but exciting, when even a small boat went past my slip, as an inch of stretch in the ropes = about a 1’ circle I was swinging in.

Once the lowers were measured, made, (with Sta Locs) and installed, it became a fraction of that.

I would not do it anchored out, except in an emergency, however.

BTW... Sta Locs are the best, but...
Fill the barrel with a NON reactive to SS = a no Ammonia type of silicone, or better, 3M 4200 UV.

It should be made dry, snugged up only, and opened, to be sure no formed wires are twisted or got into the slot of the cone. Just over 1/6” should stick out past the cone. Mask off the wire, 1/8” above the nut!

If it is perfect, fill the barrel 60% from the bottom with the small tube caulk nozzle, being careful NOT TO GET ANY ON THE REST OF THE BAREL’S THREADS!

Then put blue lock tite on the nut portion of the threads, install the fitting, and snug it up.

If the caulk oozed out of the lay of the wire, where it exits the nut, that is perfect. Then get is good and tight, but not with all of your strength! Do not crush the wires!

Now, clean off the excess caulk, but not TOO clean... leave the caulk at the entry as a fillet, do not create a moat.

If you did not put in enough caulk, and need to do it over, CLEAN ALL CAULK OFF OF THE THREADS ON THE FEMALE STA LOC!

WHY?
If caulk mixes with Loc Tite, as it would otherwise... neither one will EVER set up!

[Ryban]

That's quite an impressive job you did there! That also sounds a lot more challenging.

The good news is that I'll have the full support of my back and forestay, as well as all my lowers while I'm up top. So I don't think there will be too much movement.

I know a pretty quiet spot around here, but there still is the occasional boat that speeds by. I could also look into getting a slip for a few days, but frankly, I think it's more risky for me to try and dock my boat than it is for me to climb a mast with a halyard as a stay. Have you read about how Vegas handle under power? Not very well, and my most stressful moments on the boat so far have been getting into and out of slips.

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by Ryban

That's quite an impressive job you did there! That also sounds a lot more challenging.



The good news is that I'll have the full support of my back and forestay, as well as all my lowers while I'm up top. So I don't think there will be too much movement.



I know a pretty quiet spot around here, but there still is the occasional boat that speeds by. I could also look into getting a slip for a few days, but frankly, I think it's more risky for me to try and dock my boat than it is for me to climb a mast with a halyard as a stay. Have you read about how Vegas handle under power? Not very well, and my most stressful moments on the boat so far have been getting into and out of slips.

Thanks!

My boat as well! It has a HUGE skeg in front of the Rudder, and I come into marinas with the centerboard up, so she handles like a barge!

Sounds like you will be fine in your cove, with the mast well supported, and since you are duplicating... no measuring aloft needed. I would loosen all of the uppers to just snug, before removing the shrouds, one at the time.

Using a low stretch line from the masthead to the cap-rail, through a block, and to a winch, is a good idea as well.

Best of luck with it!
Mark

[Desertroseii]

Stalok nor Himod do not recommend to use silicon inside their fittings. You will not fill gaps between the wires anyway and you will deprive ss out of oxygen.

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by Desertroseii

Stalok nor Himod do not recommend to use silicon inside their fittings. You will not fill gaps between the wires anyway and you will deprive ss out of oxygen.

As a boatwright for most of the last 50 years, I disagree, (all silicones are not the same), and I have been a professional rigger as well.

If finding a “not reactive with SS” type Silicone is difficult for you, (they have no smell), then 4200 UV is a good choice.

My boat’s rig is 316 grade, SailBrite SS, and is 21 years old, having sailed tens of thousands of miles, all over both sides of the Caribbean.

Yes, it is due for replacement just due to age, but looks pristine!

I used 3M 5200 in mine, 21 years ago, as described. My cutter rig has 24 StaLocs.

IF DONE CORRECTLY... The threading of the male part with the wire into the female part, compresses the hell out of the caulk, which most definitely DOES fill the lay of the wire, fills the cone and barrel, and caulk oozes out the neck. It keeps all sea water out!

I have had several occasions to take them apart, after over 18 years of hard use at sea in the tropics, because of making changes in the rig.

I cut the wire 1” above the StaLoc, and opened the fitting, followed by driving the wire out with a hammer.

Then I painstakingly took apart the wire, formed over the cone, and not one strand had any rust at all, nor did the nut, barrel, or cone.

It was pristine!
The system works, but only IF you know how to do it!

[Cheechako]

Using the halyard is fine, anywhere to the side you removed within a couple feet of the chainplate, doesnt have to be chainplate, midship hawse pipe, slotted toe rail etc. There is literally almost 0 force on it with low winds.

[Jim Cate]

As a boatwright for most of the last 50 years, I disagree, (all silicones are not the same), and I have been a professional rigger as well.

If finding a “not reactive with SS” type Silicone is difficult for you, (they have no smell), then 4200 UV is a good choice.

My boat’s rig is 316 grade, SailBrite SS, and is 21 years old, having sailed tens of thousands of miles, all over both sides of the Caribbean.

Yes, it is due for replacement just due to age, but looks pristine!

I used 3M 5200 in mine, 21 years ago, as described. My cutter rig has 24 StaLocs.

IF DONE CORRECTLY... The threading of the male part with the wire into the female part, compresses the hell out of the caulk, which most definitely DOES fill the lay of the wire, fills the cone and barrel, and caulk oozes out the neck. It keeps all sea water out!

Agreed! The last Sta-Loks I bought came with a small leaflet with installation instructions. At the end, it recommended putting a blob of silicone sealant, no type specified, "the size of a grape" in t he body before final assembly and tightening. We used that method for years with no failures. The current instructions do not include that step. Reason unknown.

Re the 'not reactive with s/s" grades of silicone sealants: I don't believe it matters. The reagent involved is acetic acid. 316 stainless has great resistance to this acid. See

https://www.industrialspec.com/image...y-from-ism.pdf

for data.

On the other hand, dry assembly seems to work just fine, too, and makes re-use of the fittings much easier... also disassembly for inspection, so there is a good argument for this technique.

Jim

[Boatguy30]

You should be able to hang new wires a pair at a time and cut the ends to length on deck.

Duck tape a 2×4 to the top of the boom for cutting bench.