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Search took 0.00 seconds. Search: Posts Made By: Seaworthy Lass

Forum: Challenges

02-12-2013, 11:40

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Klaus, this is what I think the old timers meant when they used the term "lee bowing the tide". For the adage "keep the current close your lee bow" to work when tacking to reach a destination (ie to...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 15:13

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

If I misunderstood what Dave was saying in this regard, then I apologise. I do not think anyone here is arguing that a cross current will not produce a lift on one tack and a knock on the other...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 14:51

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

We are not discussing variable current at all as far as I am aware. We are discussing constant current and if there is any benefit to altering your heading when close hauled to achieve a lift of some...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 14:19

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

I am not mixing up wind LOL. Yes, of course the boat sails to apparent wind, but apparent wind is just the sum of true wind and wind induced by boat speed and leeway.

Dave this is completely...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 14:10

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

We are discussing only one situation here - close hauled.

And of course if you have any boat speed through water, as you alter heading your apparent wind will alter :). If you have no boat speed...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 13:49

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Nope, sorry, if "you do that with current on the bow", the current could easily be on the windward bow on the lifted tack. This adds even more weight to the premise that shifting the current from the...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 13:24

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Dave, I believe we all agree with you on this. [/QUOTE]

Sorry, we do not all agree. I don't.

Sailing with current on the bow does NOT "cause a wind that produces an increase in apparent wind...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 12:56

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Dockhead does not seem to be around at the moment, but may I comment on this? (I will anyway LOL)

Yes, of course a variable tide with a steady ground wind will shift the true wind (the true wind...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 09:29

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Dave, you have completely misunderstood what I showed. That beautifully simple cone diagram shows that of the two tacks the one with the current closer to the bow is the lifted one compared to the...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 08:38

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

This is certainly the "lee bow effect" we are debating with Goboatingnow and Hoofsmit (and possibly with Estarzinger, as he is sitting on the fence).

I too, would love an explanation how this is...

Forum: Challenges

29-11-2013, 03:01

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Evans, could you please clarify something? Are you saying that if you are close hauled at your optimal heading with optimal sail trim and the current is close to the bow but on the windward side,...

Forum: Challenges

28-11-2013, 22:07

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Estarzinger, FoolishSailor's quote needs to be put in context. Here is a little more of what you rather unfairly clipped off. His comments are correct :thumb:

Forum: Challenges

28-11-2013, 09:36

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

It need not be upwind of the rhumb line. The principle is to try and spend the longest time (eg tacking) in the section with the least amount of adverse current.

How do you see it being used...

Forum: Challenges

28-11-2013, 08:13

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

CTS applies for variable current over time not variable current over different positions on the course at the same time.

Evans, could you explain what you think the "lee bow effect" actually is?...

Forum: Challenges

28-11-2013, 07:14

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Sorry, I did not mean to cut you off :flowers:.

What you are discussing here is something completely different - current you can reach varying in strength in different positions on the course.
...

Forum: Challenges

28-11-2013, 07:03

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

OK, it is boat dependent :flowers:.

But there is no escaping the fact that there is a particular tack relative to the ground wind that will be lifted more by the current. Once you are on the water...

Forum: Challenges

28-11-2013, 06:28

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Your CTS will depend on your boat speed, which will depend on your polar. It will not, however, alter the lift induced by the current. The lifted effect on one tack is purely due to the change in...

Forum: Challenges

28-11-2013, 06:03

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

I agree that you need to look at polars to estimate speed. I disagree that that you can get anywhere upwind faster than being close hauled with sails perfectly trimmed.

Sailing angle is NOT the...

Forum: Challenges

28-11-2013, 05:38

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

I agree your CTS will need to be calculated using an average of the variable speed as the current changes, which adds to the complexity. For these calculations your ground wind is whatever is...

Forum: Challenges

22-11-2013, 05:22

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

I can be so very annoyingly persistent LOL.
Afraid the champagne will have to be couriered :). Just hauled out and working hard.

I at least fully agree with you that if the CTS to get to a mark...

Forum: Challenges

22-11-2013, 04:09

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

I understand what you are saying and agree fully and have never disagreed with this. I just have you on a minor technicality :). You stated in your thesis that you had an upwind mark. You did not say...

Forum: Challenges

22-11-2013, 03:39

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Dave, where on earth have I done that? :confused:
There is no current generated wind referenced to ground. If you fixed yourself to the ground while you were in water (eg hung on to an underwater...

Forum: Challenges

22-11-2013, 02:53

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Excuse me Sir, I am discussing a situation where your destination is DIRECTLY upwind of your departure point. You will not have to tack up the CTS if there is sufficient current to lay the mark :D.
...

Forum: Challenges

22-11-2013, 02:09

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

My only disagreement with this is that if the amount of cross current is sufficient, you may be able to lay the CTS without tacking at all :D.
Does that win me at least a bottle of Mumms? I will not...

Forum: Challenges

20-11-2013, 08:45

Replies: 774

Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Views: 57,004

Posted By Seaworthy Lass

Re: Let's Get to the Bottom of the Lee-Bow Effect Once and For All

Hoofsmit and Dave
I will try and reply later tonight. We are hauling out tomorrow and needed to service two engines and pickle the water maker and I haven't finished with chores yet :(. Long day...

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