Is it Worth Giving up Hockey ?

[David_Old_Jersey]

The boat & travel thing has lots of advantages - my concern would be on the socialisation side of things. Kids need kids. mini-me adults all very nice, but kinda missing the point of childhood.

And meeting people. and saying goodbye. and knowing that is the outcome before you even start does get tired and colours the relationships from the outset. the problem with new people is a lack of shared experiances. and unspoken points of reference.

On balance I would say go for it, as long as you don't impose on him your dreams of 24/7 peace and quiet away from the world / people (it takes age and work to appreciate that ). and maybe be prepared to dawdle in places you might not otherwise choose to if he finds good company / experiances off the boat in that locale.

A few folk have passed through CF who seem to view a boat as a more socially acceptable cupboard to keep the kids in "safe"" from a scarey world.............but I suspect that given (as with the Hockey) you are already well aware of his needs that the choice doesn't really matter. onshore or afloat you'll probably all do ok

Other people's lives - always easy to sort out

[lawdawg]

Thought you might want to check out this blog.... here is a post-
TUESDAY, MAY 12, 2009
Defining Moments
Chris here... I had a second "defining moment" today. For me, this cruise was never about the places we were going to visit. Whether it was the United States, the Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Europe or some other exotic locale was always irrelevant for me.

Before we started this journey, I worked. I don't mean your ordinary nine to five job. I owned a technology company - still own it as a matter of fact. I was in the office by 9am, worked through lunch, and got back home around 7pm. I would usually walk in the door and sit right down at the dinner table (we always ate dinner as a family). Immediately after dinner, Kaitlin would go to bed and I'd sit on the couch and decompress. Casey would go to bed at 9pm and Kristen would usually follow along soon after. Then, from around 10:30pm until 2am or 3am I'd work more. Then the process would repeat itself.

Weekends were my extended decompression time. I'd wake up at 10 or so on Saturday morning, read a book for a bit, and then play with the kids for an hour or two before going out and running errands or mowing the lawn. Sundays were the same.

In other words, the time I had with my family added up to less than 20-25 hours a week. That's just not right. Life is not about work and your career. It's about spending time with those you care about. It's about taking the opportunity to, well, live.

A few weeks ago I had a defining moment on this trip. What is a defining moment to me? It's a point in time that makes my life and my investment in what I'm doing today all worth it.

At home, Kaitlin always wanted her Mommy. If there was a question, she'd ask Mommy. If she was scared, she'd call for Mommy. If she got hurt, Mommy would make her feel better. A few weeks ago Kaitlin fell and skinned her knee pretty bad. She asked one of the kids she was with - "Get my Daddy! I need my Daddy!". It wasn't a call for Mom. Finally, in her eyes, I was an equal caregiver and comforter. It was an amazing feeling - absolutely amazing.

Today, I had another defining moment. Casey disagreed with Kristen and I on something. I don't mean just a simple disagreement. I mean a dragged out, kickin', screamin' (not literally) disagreement. Casey ended up in his room mad as heck, not even wanting to communicate with us. Kristen had to go do something (the something the disagreement was about) and once she left Casey was full of guilt and desperately wanted to go with her. At this point, he couldn't, and that drove him completely over the edge.

Knowing that he's getting older and that things get different as you go through the tweens and teens, after I calmed him down we had a long talk about life, mistakes and decisions. We were good - really good - after the conversation. Tonight, as I put him into bed, he thanked me for talking to him earlier and said that it really meant a lot to him.

If we hadn't gone cruising, my life would still be my work. My kids would still look at me as the guy who they lived with and saw, sometimes. Yes, I was their father, but never their Dad. I hope everyone who reads this blog has defining moments as good as mine.

s/v Pelican - Following A Dream: Defining Moments

[Capitana_Chani]

I am glad that you are there for your family. Thank you for sharing your story.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by lawdawg

... I hope everyone who reads this blog has defining moments as good as mine.
s/v Pelican - Following A Dream: Defining Moments

Indeed - thanks for sharing!

[boatman61]

s/v Pelican - Following A Dream: Defining Moments

Excellent post... goes to show.. Love is a/the Drug that gives the best High...

[aquarian]

Originally Posted by BojanglesIV

Bill,

If you want to do it with your kids, then do it. Lots of people do (including me) and I've yet to meet one family who regretted it.

If this is your dream, work your life (and lifestyle) around the dream. Don't try to work your dream around your lifestyle. I know that sounds trite, but it's true.

It's also 100% true that the biggest challenge in any cruising adventure is getting that first mile away from the dock. Once you're out there, things get a whole lot simpler. And as for re-entry into a shore-based life, I'm sure you can figure that out too.

You seem like a bright, capable guy... Make it happen.

(BTW - you notice how the conversation is no longer about kids' hockey, but about lifestyle and career issues? Hmmmm...)

Cheers,
Colin

Great Advice! Life is short . . .

[aquarian]

lawdawgs post is why I would seriously consider cruising over hockey. I have 2 (now grown) children of my own and have helped raise thousands of others (middle grades teacher). I did not have the opportunity to take my kids cruising, but we did spend extended amounts of time in Mexico and traveling within the US (related to our employment and extended family then). While at home we were a softball family. Oldsest daughter had the potential to earn a scholarship - still teaches pitching and other skills. The experiences that had the greatest effect on them and that they still talk about are not related to softball or ballet, but Mexico and the other places we went. Therre is something about getting out of "suburbia" that makes "family" really happen. It is almost magical and hard to explain, but it really encourages those moments that lawdawg described. You know hockey will still be there when you get back. And eventually the kids will get so involved in their own lives that they won't want to take an extended trip with their parents. It's called growing up. I would have a serious heart to heart with my family and if they want to go - GO! If you get 2 months out and they decide they hate it, come back in. When the kids are grown, you can take off again.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by rusky

Your very welcome Bill,
We rented the house and just moved back 6 weeks ago after being away from it for 7 years. Had to do a quick reno as expected.

That is a good strategy, if you are able to deal with the property management issues through trusted sources. If not, that one is a bit of a crap shoot.

I think 'one' needs a home base to hold onto as 'home', if or when you want to get off teh boat. It is also an appreciating asset as you mentioned.

The recent real estate meltdown would counter the "real estate always appreciates" theory.

I just recently finished winding up an estate, which included a desirable (penthouse with roof garden overlooking an ocean bay) condo that was purchased back in the mid-'70's.

At first I was pleased with the capital gain that it obtained over the time. However, I thought I would see what the real return was over 30+ years.

I was surprised that it did WORSE then if the same amount of money had been invested in GIC's. In fact, long term bonds would have done better, especially if laddered. The average capital gain was less than 4% per year, and you have to remember that in the early '80's interest rates were approaching 20% for a time.

So, although real estate gives one a sense of security, it may well be better to sell, invest in secured non-equity instruments, and then look at buying again if and when one is coming back to land.

There is also an argument made for renting versus buying, but I won't get into that analysis.

[capcook]

Originally Posted by avb3

I was surprised that it did WORSE then if the same amount of money had been invested in GIC's. In fact, long term bonds would have done better, especially if laddered. The average capital gain was less than 4% per year, and you have to remember that in the early '80's interest rates were approaching 20% for a time.
.

And you are probably not even debiting the returns with those non-deductible HOA fees not to mention R/E Taxes and other expenses... Real Estate just slows you down...

Cheers

[Bill Lee]

Thanks you all for the posts. I'm a very decisive person and a go -getter (I want something to happen and I make it so). However, in the balance are:
1. my families' well being (and each individual's well-being)
2. the issue of adjusting to change
3. financial opportunity cost
4. opportunity cost of NOT experiencing this lifestyle and the almost certainty of individual growth/familuy bonding
5. particular concern for my son as he will likely be most affected.
I have never been so indecisive (yes, I know - its not my decision but a decision to be made by my wife and I).
Still grateful that we have such choices. Cheers,
Bill

[Jay Jennings]

Go now. Pack up your family and go and don't look back. Because 5 years from now you'll be sitting in your house looking around at all your stuff and saying, "I wish we would have..."

Sure, you and your wife can go later, but this is the time you have available to go as a family. And no matter how much the kids like the things in their life right now, they don't know enough about "real life" to make the decision on what is best for them.

I've loved sailing since I was a teen in the San Juan's but my dream of living on a sailboat didn't hit until 3-4 years ago. We didn't have the money to do it -- after selling the house and getting rid of the bills we had enough to buy a 26' travel trailer and a tank of gas. So we hit the road and drove the west coast and south and I worked via the internet at whatever Starbucks was closest to where we parked for the night.

We did that for almost two years and are back in Alaska with the kids who are 14 and almost 17 -- and I'm frustrated to no end that I can't financially swing it to get us on a boat. I have just a little over a year before my son turns 18 and then it will no longer be my decision to go sailing together as a family.

If you can handle it now, do it. If it turns out to be a mistake it will be LESS of a mistake than not doing it when you had the chance.

Jay Jennings

[Capt Phil]

Looking back after 70 years, the mistakes of not spending the time with my kids still pains me. I followed MY dream selfishly providing financially but not personally for my sons who are now grown, successful and with children of their own. If I had the chance to do it over, I would have stayed home, shared, taught and guided them more. We still have a wonderful connection, albeit long distance, for which I am thankful for but you cannot reclaim those lost years. Don't waste a second of right now spending it on waiting and dreaming... grab life by the throat together and share it to the last drop. Hockey and school friends pale in comparison to the shared joy you can experience together as a family on the ocean. From one who has been there and wished I'd done it differently... can't say more plainly than that!... Capt Phil

[ozskipper]

Hockey isnt the only passtime on the planet. While liveaboard cruising he will also pick up, snorkling, scuba, sailing (obviously), Fishing the list goes on.

Forget hockey and have a family adventure!

Cheers
Oz

[High Heels]

Hi Bill Lee,

I commend you on your concern for your family's well being and treating your son with the respect he deserves, as well as the rest of your family and their needs.

This is a big decision.

I understand how important Hockey probably is to your son. I think any time a young person has a chance to participate in a team sport that they are passionate about it helps give them confidence, learn to work with others, learn respect for others, and to build the kind of discipline it takes to realize other future dreams in their lives.

I had this with sailboat racing when I was in college, and I cannot tell you how much, to this day, the skills I learned being a good team mate, maintaining 50 foot racing sailboats, subsequently learning how to teach sailing, etc...still affects the way I interact today. It was an extremely important time in my life and pivotal experience. If Hockey is to your son, as sailboat racing was to me, this isn't going to be easy.

A great majority of what I mentioned above which your son can glean from playing hockey could also be experienced sailboat cruising...although that competitive aspect is not necessarily there. Healthy competition I think is also good for people of all ages to experience...

So, I guess the observation I would like to share is that you certainly don't want him to go into cruising with resentment that he is missing out on something that he finds so rewarding. Can you talk with him honestly and forthright about this? Can you tell him why you think this is so important for your family right now at this date and time, what your heart's desires are, and then ask him the same? Maybe flesh out for him the alternative ways he could experience many of the same feelings of accomplishment cruising, how he will have the opportunity to build relationships with others while working for a common goal...Maybe he could get into sailboat racing ;0)

I just think this is not just about Hockey, but what Hockey does for him. There are times in my Life honestly where I think back on those college days and those experiences and they give my strength and guidance even now that I am 40 years old.

You sound like an amazing Dad! Good luck with all of your deliberation and decisions...

[Bill Lee]

Thanks High Heels and all the posters.
My son is doing something he LOVES. He's 11 going on 12 in the early New Year. My daughter is quite remarkable in many ways, in particular, she has a high degree of empathy and concern for others. When her important people are happy - so is she. She can also make herself happy as that is her natural state. We're starting to lean away from Cruising now. One reason is that we get 2 whole months of family cruising time each summer (and hockey the rest of the time). Not the same thing as full time cruisers but a decent compromise. To find something you love at such an early age (hockey) is not easy. Yes, there are other things, and believe me - homework, friends, social responsibility (etc...) are far more important in my book. Pursuing a cruising life now presents far more destabilizing risks for my son than the rewards - given that our lives offer other rewards. Its still a question my wife and I discuss frequently - especially now that the cold has set in. But still, my daughter has her friends sleep over at home and I'm at the boat with my son for some bonding time, and vice versa with my daughter. It can only get better and we won't have long to wait. There are no right answers here - and we can't put our wants ahead of our kids and dress it up as benefits to the family - even though those benefits are real. Argh - still a toughie...
Cheers,
Bill