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Old 25-01-2019, 09:08   #31
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

Sadly, your comments are spot on from my experience. I stood many bridge watches and the level of experience on any given watch would blow your mind.
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Old 25-01-2019, 09:26   #32
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

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Originally Posted by Watermann View Post
I sail commercial, but like many maritime academy grads, spent time in the MMR and my experience there was completely reflected in the above statements. The USN, unfortunately, is not about seafaring or even warfighting.

Every experience was an exercise in navigating bureaucracy more than navigating a ship.

"If it's gray, stay away" is proven far too often. The Porter collision was really the first of these recent types and it's only by the grace of God that it didn't result in any deaths. The audio from that event should be embarrassing to any professional bridge watchstander.

https://soundcloud.com/naval-institu...-porter-ddg-78

As for the USCG, I've never had a problem encountering their vessels. Definitely much better watchstanding from what I can tell.
Hopefully ALL officers onboard will be tried an shot. I know accountability will be a new concept to the Navy but it should start here. Commanding officers should be the ones to pull the trigger.
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Old 25-01-2019, 10:02   #33
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

Its no secret that Navy leadership has been in the toilet for decades. Even in light of some of exposed flaws, this is incredibly disturbing. I wonder how many other ships are in this condition? There is no way this crew could have fought this ship. We should scared, very scared. Strong leadership, discipline and training could fix this. But, these days, if you raise your voice at a sailor, you might find your career in the toilet along with the rest of the Navy's ships.
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Old 25-01-2019, 10:06   #34
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

That was an NCIS investigation, you know, the TV show. The leadership signed off on it but they were desperately looking for someone to blame in the Iowa explosion. So, they pulled the theory that this sailor was gay, right out of their ass and then tried to pin another guy with the same label, which back then, was a label. Unfortunately, there wasn't a shred of evidence to support their "idea." There is nothing more dangerous than a military officer who is trying to get promoted.
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If you have read the Report the Navy wrote initially about the explosion in turret 2 of the USS Iowa in 1989 with the entire blame on one of the victims of the explosion, blaming him for suicidal and homosexual tendancies, then you get a good feeling for what the purpose of a "Navy Investigation" committee is. Better not read to much truth in it!
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Old 25-01-2019, 10:09   #35
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

Correction: I should have said "no one more dangerous than a major, LCDR or flag officer trying to get promoted."
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Old 25-01-2019, 10:42   #36
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

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Correction: I should have said "no one more dangerous than a major, LCDR or flag officer trying to get promoted."
Oh, their daddy is an Admiral in the Pentagon. If junior doesn't get promoted someones getting court marshalled. The inbreeding is rampant in the Navy. Competitive promotions are long gone.
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Old 25-01-2019, 11:31   #37
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

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The NavyTimes has gotten hold of the internal Navy Fort Report from 6weeks after the collision.

Apparently the merchant ship carried enough responsibility in the collision that the owners coughed up $26.7M to the USNavy but admitted no wrongdoing which is as expected.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...ald-collision/
Only 5% of the navy ship repair cost so they were probably seen as innocent victims.

Possibly a payout by the merchant ship's insurance company so they could walk away from further involvment.
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Old 25-01-2019, 12:36   #38
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

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Only 5% of the navy ship repair cost so they were probably seen as innocent victims.

Possibly a payout by the merchant ship's insurance company so they could walk away from further involvment.
That's exactly right. The talk on the navy ship bridge confirms the navy ship made multiple evasive maneuvers indicating they were the give way vessel. If they were the stand on vessel it would have been incumbent on them to maintain course and speed. They did neither. (it's questionable if any naval officer know that and judging from that fact that almost all the officers failed a simple rules of the road test after the incident, confirms that.) Any way you look at it they were 100% at fault.
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Old 25-01-2019, 13:33   #39
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that our society has created a generation of snowflakes. The Navy and the other branches have had to tone down on the methods traditionally used to discipline personnel for fear the offenders feelings may get hurt. But the Navy has one huge issue it's had to deal with and that's the fact that women do not belong on ships, period.
Talk about a very lucrative venue for an enterprising young "lady" to start her own prostitution ring, here it is and with a customer base just ripe for the pickin'. And don't think it isn't happening, because it is, in every branch of the service. I'm sure we all could conjure up all types of scenarios that could take place at any time while underway! I couldn't imagine being on a 6 month WestPac or Med cruise with a bunch of females when I was a young sailor, I would've been broke before hitting the beach!
I agree with the skipper taking the fall, he should have been on the bridge while underway in a busy seaway, as with Navy tradition, anytime a vessel has a significant incident (collision, running aground, etc) the skipper will probably never command another another naval vessel.
The way I see it the Navy, like the Marines, need to keep with tradition, running a well disciplined vessel is not easy, but the results in battle have proven time after time that even the smallest, well disciplined ship, platoon, company, etc. can take on any adversary.
I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not the Navy's fault, it's ours and the society we've become!
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Old 25-01-2019, 16:21   #40
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

[QUOTE=Adelie;2803467]The NavyTimes has gotten hold of the internal Navy Fort Report from 6weeks after the collision.

Might be worth taking a long look at the work of "Florida Maquis"


There's some VERY suspicious stuff involved in the whole story. Particularly if one analyzes the AIS data. Like class A xponder changing into class B in the middle of the shipping lane. Misreporting of the accident times.

Some really weird radio traffic after the accident. Etc, etc.

There are a number of offerings on the subject through this channel.

Doubt we've really heard the full story on this sad episode.

Sounds like the Navy has thrown some of its people under the bus. Well, the Navy may be lying and concocting a complete BS story here. But why? Because it might well be we'd be in a shooting war with some rather bad actors otherwise.
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Old 25-01-2019, 18:13   #41
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

I read what was written above. I thought "conspiracy theorist". Thought that might be being unfair to "billdomb". So, I clicked on his profile, and then on "about me." It said "gender/male". A pretty common blank book around here.

I watched the You tube, and I thought it was well done, but it is all innuendo, although interesting, from a number of different points of view.

Ann
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Old 25-01-2019, 18:46   #42
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

It is rumored that all the naval ship "accidents" aren't accidents at all. Six in one year and you call it accidents? How many in a year would it take to see a trend? Compare that to the merchant fleet and it becomes obvious. It is alleged the shipyards are giving huge kickbacks to anyone that sends them business. I don't know if I believe that entirely but it would be easy for an admiral to put incompetent officers in charge and deploy them to high traffic areas and "hope for the best".
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Old 25-01-2019, 18:54   #43
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

I think its funny when the navy sends out an admiral in dress uniform draped in badges and flanked by other admirals with similar adornment and think that will lend credibility to their BS. The press shouldn't allow such obviously staged **** show. The sad part is a lot of people believe it. The families of the victims deserve better.
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Old 26-01-2019, 00:36   #44
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

The culture is very risk adverse with promotion the primary goal. You can't run a desk aground.
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Old 26-01-2019, 01:24   #45
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Re: USNavy Report on Fitzgerald Collision.

The Navy's solution seems to be re-instituting celestial navigation at the Naval Academy. We don't expect a lot out of the Navy but we are getting a whole lot less.
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