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Old 04-11-2008, 10:42   #1
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Staysail + Rolled Genny?

I own a Tayana 37 cutter.

This weekend I was experimenting with using the staysail and a
partially rolled 150% genoa on a windward beat to a beam reach. Of
course, the rolled genny isn't much of a sail, but I have it out to
where the clew was about at the cap shroud so as to approximate a
yankee (which I do not have). It seemed to work pretty well and, best
of all, it passed through the "cutter slot" easily on a tack.

Any other cutter sailors sail this way?
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:59   #2
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Aloha Sneuman,
That is a nice boat. Is it new to you?
Yes, cutters are supposed to sail with a yankee and staysail in up to about 20k winds. Many times if just a 150 genny is used you'll upset the balance of the rig and it just won't act right. Rolling it in a bit and experimenting with how much sail in different wind conditions and what works best for you is a great way of determining what size yankee you might want to order to have a very well balanced rig. You are lucky you have that genny on a roller so you can really tweak it in and out to get the proper feel.
Kind regards,
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Old 04-11-2008, 11:26   #3
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Scott,

My cutter has a 110% genoa with a fairly high cut clew, so I'm already reefed by your standards. It sails great when the wind is 8-10 knots or more. In winds above 20 kts, I start reefing, and keep some genoa rolled out all the way up to 45-50 kts. It adds a lot of power compared to staysail and deeply reefed main alone.

I had luff pads installed so the gennie keeps a good shape and draws well at any reef point. Before I had the pads installed, it created a large weather helm when reefed in beyond 85% or so because of the baggy shape.

I bought an asymmetric spinnaker for light winds, since the 110% isn't very effective in those conditions.
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Old 04-11-2008, 14:24   #4
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Hi I have a Vancouver 27 (British)
I have a new Yankee I asked for about 20% bigger than the standard size, so this allows me to take a few rolls in and I have pretty much the designed sail, (I also have a foam luff). She seems pretty well balanced, I have tried with just the yankee and main (When out for a daysail with nowhere special to go) and being lazy and not bothering to hank on the staysail, again she seems pretty good but the staysail is the key to keeping the balance and adding a bit extra power.
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Old 04-11-2008, 14:51   #5
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I have a 120% roller-furled genoa that I often fly partially-furled, with the staysail. It gives me more power than the staysail alone, and has a padded luff which gives it decent shape when reefed. When sailing home from Hawaii and punching into the heavy trades I usually kept the main at the first or second reef, and adjusted speed / heel / balance by using various combinations of reefed genoa plus staysail.

FWIW, my genoa has a fairly high-cut clew, but it isn't a full yankee.
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Old 04-11-2008, 16:38   #6
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Since the subject came up. Our genoa doesn't have luff pads in it, but the staysail does. Mamma just finished up putting new Sunbrella on the staysail. If we wanted to add a padded luff, how much, how long, etc.? Any ideas?

TIA
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Old 04-11-2008, 18:16   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
Since the subject came up. Our genoa doesn't have luff pads in it, but the staysail does. Mamma just finished up putting new Sunbrella on the staysail. If we wanted to add a padded luff, how much, how long, etc.? Any ideas?

TIA
Bill in order to answer that


1) what is your luff length?
2) What is it 110- 135 -167?
3) What ounce material is it?
4) Whats its cut..sweeper...high clew?
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Old 04-11-2008, 18:30   #8
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1) approximately 65 (I is supposed to be 63, J:20)
2) it was a 135, but cut down to raise the clew up for visability
3) I honestly don't know. I'd guess 6-8 oz.
4) As noted above, high clew.
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Old 04-11-2008, 20:23   #9
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12 to 14" in the center tapering to nothing a couple feet from the tack and head should be enough if your sail isnt really blown out...more if it is.

You can use the strips and some two sided tape and experiment before sewing them on permanently...don't use a lot of tape it can be hard to get off a sail.

Hope this helps
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:00   #10
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Re: Staysail + rolled genny?

Reopening old threat (which I originated). I found a yankee in my inventory and have been playing around with it. Also bought an asymmetrical, which I am very happy with. I noticed Cacique mention a 20 percent larger than normal yankee and I'm thinking my next move might be to press the envelope with a bigger yankee too. My question is what is the biggest sail that will still pass through the slot? Is there a way of determining that or do I need to just ask a sailmaker?
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:32   #11
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Re: Staysail + rolled genny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Reopening old threat (which I originated). I found a yankee in my inventory and have been playing around with it. Also bought an asymmetrical, which I am very happy with. I noticed Cacique mention a 20 percent larger than normal yankee and I'm thinking my next move might be to press the envelope with a bigger yankee too. My question is what is the biggest sail that will still pass through the slot? Is there a way of determining that or do I need to just ask a sailmaker?
That's really a question of how big a sail you want to wrestle through the slot. I've managed to get my 135 through it when I have my inner forestay rigged, but it's a bit of a bear. Sometimes I just furl and unfurl to tack, particularly if I'm single handing and don't want to run up onto the foredeck to help it around. Rigging your sheets to they attach smoothly to the clew (e.g. soft shackles) certainly helps.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:45   #12
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Re: Staysail + rolled genny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
That's really a question of how big a sail you want to wrestle through the slot. I've managed to get my 135 through it when I have my inner forestay rigged, but it's a bit of a bear. Sometimes I just furl and unfurl to tack, particularly if I'm single handing and don't want to run up onto the foredeck to help it around. Rigging your sheets to they attach smoothly to the clew (e.g. soft shackles) certainly helps.
I'd like it to come through the slot pretty reliably without any manual (or furling) assistance. I have a bigger genoa, but without the high-cut clew, simply rolling it down to find the right size probably isn't going to give me a good indicator. I'm happy with the yankee and if necessary will have a new one made just like it, but then again if I could push it 10-20 percent bigger and still make it work, that'd better fill the gap between the "normal" sail plan and the point when I switch to the asym.
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:30   #13
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Re: Staysail + rolled genny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
That's really a question of how big a sail you want to wrestle through the slot. I've managed to get my 135 through it when I have my inner forestay rigged, but it's a bit of a bear. Sometimes I just furl and unfurl to tack, particularly if I'm single handing and don't want to run up onto the foredeck to help it around. Rigging your sheets to they attach smoothly to the clew (e.g. soft shackles) certainly helps.
I have a Slocum 37 double ender similar to the Rafiki 37 and I have the same sail combo up front. I've experienced the same problem with tacking the 135. Best situation is to furl in to come about.

Btw, in winds up to 20-25 knots I fly both the 135 and 110% staysail without reefing. She just leans over and sails like a freight train....

BZT
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