Licensing

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

The basic problem of licensing, is the power to license is the power to control....Doubt me, in my state you have to run through a background check to see if you have any outstanding fines, parking tickets, or unpaid child support,.......before you are allowed to buy a fishing license. A fishing license, like a drivers license, or any other license can be revoked at any time, and for any reason, or for no reason at all.

It is your problem to go to court, hire a lawyer and argue that you deserve it back.

Some people will pay a bribe and get one without even the ability to read the exam.

It will become a "revenue enhancer", first the fee will be small, eventually it will cost so much it is a significant barrier to entry. B.ring O.n A.nother T.housand will apply to licensing and registration fees, as well as boat maintenence.

The guy who buys an 8ft dinghy will be required to pay and take the same exam as the new buyer of a 100ft luxery yacht.

If you want to improve water safety, take the Power Squadron course. Still want more?

Take the USCG exam for captians license, note to get USCG license you have to pay to take a drug test, even if you never used, or were ever accused or suspected of taking drugs, a background test including checking for any outstanding fines, or child support will be done. You will also be checked for violations on any other license for any other field...Oh yah, you will also have to take an exam, and pay some fees, you also have to buy a TWIC card, another $200.00, (although I dont know why, and have never had to use it).

The USCG could easily make this license mandatory for everyone, although I fail to see the reason a guy who takes his family on a 18ft runabout on a small private lake needs to know which regulation mandates the firehose diameter on a 300ft freighter, (one of the exam questions). OR what is the flooding rate of a cargo hold whith a 1ft dia hole below the waterline, (maybe the Titanic crew missed this one).

Tell all your friends to take a boating class, YES. Fork over even more of my hard earned money to the goverment to tell me to, NO.

Having boated in a number of countries and an equal number of provinces and states in Canada and the USA, I couldn't agree with you more on the hoops some states make one jump. Currently in New England, I was ticked at the boating requirements whether or not I was in my dink or sailing. Unless on the hard most marinas require a current registration. To get a registration, one needs a boating license. You see the heading we're on here.
That being said; I don't think I'm ready to believe somebody when they say they've got the knowing, when in fact they're lying through their beer stained wooden teeth. When on the water in New England, required licensing for the most part, gives assurance that the skipper of the boat heading towards you has the appropriate credentials and skill-set.
This is completely the opposite feeling one gets when heading out on any given summer Sunday in Marina Del Rey, when the chances are higher that you'll be struck by another boat, than getting a sunburn. Ticked or otherwise, knowing boaters in New England are liscensed, gives one a more secure feeling when out and about on the water.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

. Ticked or otherwise, knowing boaters in New England are licensed, gives one a more secure feeling when out and about on the water.

Keep that warm feeling, half the "licensed" drivers in my state aren't even here legally, have no insurance, and speak no english, and don't know a single rule of the road.

How is licensing going to work offshore? Is there going to be an international license?? If so I'm getting mine in the Cayman islands.

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Keep that warm feeling, half the "licensed" drivers in my state aren't even here legally, have no insurance, and speak no english, and don't know a single rule of the road.

You had me at "half".

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=Seahunter;848547]

Originally Posted by boatman61

+A1.....
I find those advocating the 'Something must be Done' cry is usually from some one trying to make money out of me... like Sailing Schools/Instructors/Associations, Insurance Companies, Manufacturers of unnessecary gadgets/extra's etc...
[\QUOTE]

We'll just send you the SAR bill for the cost of recovery; after all safety is all about "money".

Thats the difference between your State Funded system that makes you have to try Sea Tow first and our Charity Funded RNLI...
its sponsered by us the sailors, families, endowments... in fact just about everyone in the country happily dips into their pockets from pennies to millions funding one of the best equipped and manned NGO Voluntary Rescue Services in the world... you forget we're an island race... and many folk have links with the sea...
cutting out the middle man (Government) makes for amazing efficiency and economy...
Airsea Rescue is something else... good training for our helo pilots...
another strange thing about us...
We have no compulsory licensing or registration...
Tho' I sometime wonder since jet bikes came on the scene...
created a whole new breed of skinheads...

You'll always find idiots... even amongst YM's... and I've seen a coupla 3...
But then thats what they may have thought of me....
I do accept however that things are different over there in the land of the free..

[sabray]

my libertarion voice is sceaming John Lott help. My calm suddle liberal persona is screaming John lott help. Good lord ,good people, good sailors leave me alone.

[Canibul]

damn I'm glad I live someplace where we don't have a bunch of people thinking that the government needs to get even MORE power and get MORE involved in my daily life and what I do with my boat. I don't have to have a radio, or flares, or life jackets, or whistles, if I choose not to. I can stand in the bow of a power boat while underway, and it ain't nobody's business but my own. I can put VHF radios in all my vehicles and in my home and talk to boats all day if I want, and the FCC can't do a damned thing about it.

hallelujah.

[Seahunter]

One can hardly compare gun control with compulsory licensing of boaters, having no more validity than accusing the USA of being a socialist state. Safe boating equates to saving lives, having little to do with with SAR dynamics. While the US, Canada and the more civilized countries support a paramilitary coastal command, it is to the benefit of boaters worldwide.
Adding a boaters' license to ones "equipment" list won't add to the cost of boating either. Most insurance companies deduct up to 15% of rates to boaters who've taken recognized courses, offsetting the cost of licensing over time.

[sabray]

save your own life. I have sailed enough years I don't need a government telling me I am licensed and can sail. See no need for it. I am not seeing amass of incompetant sailors flooding the water way. Usually there is some newbie that took boo coo courses whose mate is freakin out on the vhf get me off this thing. Or the topping lift has snarled and the sail wont come down while certified newb is crashing about in the harbor. Please leave me alone to sail without your desire to save me.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

It will become a "revenue enhancer", first the fee will be small, eventually it will cost so much it is a significant barrier to entry. B.ring O.n A.nother T.housand will apply to licensing and registration fees, as well as boat maintenence.

The guy who buys an 8ft dinghy will be required to pay and take the same exam as the new buyer of a 100ft luxery yacht.

If you want to improve water safety, take the Power Squadron course. Still want more?

Take the USCG exam for captians license, note to get USCG license you have to pay to take a drug test, even if you never used, or were ever accused or suspected of taking drugs, a background test including checking for any outstanding fines, or child support will be done. You will also be checked for violations on any other license for any other field...Oh yah, you will also have to take an exam, and pay some fees, you also have to buy a TWIC card, another $200.00, (although I dont know why, and have never had to use it).

The USCG could easily make this license mandatory for everyone, although I fail to see the reason a guy who takes his family on a 18ft runabout on a small private lake needs to know which regulation mandates the firehose diameter on a 300ft freighter, (one of the exam questions). OR what is the flooding rate of a cargo hold whith a 1ft dia hole below the waterline, (maybe the Titanic crew missed this one).

Tell all your friends to take a boating class, YES. Fork over even more of my hard earned money to the goverment to tell me to, NO.

Power Squadron courses are all theory, there is no practical demonstration actual boating skills.

USCG licencing is admittedly over-kill. But there is a intermediate approach such as the International Certificate of Competence used in Europe. It has both theoretical and practical components. It is not a revenue grab by the government as the ICC is administered by the Yachting Associations. Ireland is a good outline of their program (http://www.sailing.ie/Portals/0/ICC/...0the%20ICC.pdf).

Any Irish sailors want to comment?

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by sabray

save your own life. I have sailed enough years I don't need a government telling me I am licensed and can sail. See no need for it. I am not seeing amass of incompetant sailors flooding the water way. Usually there is some newbie that took boo coo courses whose mate is freakin out on the vhf get me off this thing. Or the topping lift has snarled and the sail wont come down while certified newb is crashing about in the harbor. Please leave me alone to sail without your desire to save me.

I am reminded of the sailor I met up in Port Hardy last summer. He had been sailing for decades, but he was perplexed by some nav aids that he was convinced were misplaced. It took me quite some time to explain both the "upstream rules" and the general direction of buoyage. He was in an area in which the general direction of buoyage trumps the upstream rules. he had been wise enough to use the charts to determine what to do with buoys, but he did not know why.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

[sabray]

Jackdale can save me but the government needs to stay out of it.

[s/v Jedi]

According to all the chartplotter threads on CF it would be helpful if every cruiser must pass a complete coastal navigation exam. In Holland this has been the case for a long time, say 20 years or so. And that improves safety and reduces costs of rescue services of course, no need to ask for proof because it's obvious when you compare with Caribbean where chater boats set sail with utterly clueless holiday goers aboard.

cheers,
Nick.

[red_sky]

Originally Posted by hummingway

Boat Operator's Certificate (I think that's the name) in Canada is very easy to get. ...

Indeed. I was not very impressed with that mandate. The test I took had not a single question about navigation, buoyage or rules of the road. I could hardly believe it. Based on my experience with it I have a hard time not seeing it as anything but a thinly veiled tax.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by red_sky

Indeed. I was not very impressed with that mandate. The test I took had not a single question about navigation, buoyage or rules of the road. I could hardly believe it. Based on my experience with it I have a hard time not seeing it as anything but a thinly veiled tax.

The government sees none the money. It goes to the testing agency.

I have an exam in front of me. It has buoyage and ROR questions.

I am an examiner.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by jackdale

The government sees none the money. It goes to the testing agency. I have an exam in front of me. It has buoyage and ROR questions. I am an examiner.

I gotta say Jackdale, my recollection of the Canadian (now mandatory) Pleasure Craft Operator Card test was that it was a joke. Common sense and 15 minutes of cram time would be all that was needed to pass this licensing test. Knowing someone had this little card would give me no added assurance that they were competent to be at the helm.

I'm not speaking against accreditation and skills development. I've learned a lot from all the CYA and Power Squadron courses I've taken over the years. I fully endorse this kind of training (especially the on-the-water CYA courses). But this federal licensing scheme is what gives government regulation a bad name.

I'd be more supportive of a real skills-training license such as say the CYA Basic, or equivalent ISAF course. Make it real. Then it might be worth the effort.