boat for small crew/big water

[Joli]

Originally Posted by scgilligan

Next step is locating some sailing lessons from a competent teacher..
Thanks for the response.

Taking lesson is a very good first step but you really must get time on the water. More is better and sailing in all conditions is the best.

[Agility]

I basically single handed a 58 foot Tayana but the admiral was there in case of something unusual. My limiting factors were:

1. Too heavy of a dink to put on the foredeck without help. (Get an inflatable and you'll be OK.

2. I couldn't deploy the gangplank single handed.

2. The anchor was 85lbs. Borderline too heavy if you have to put it in a dink or work with it off the windlass.

3. Sails. Although they were powered furlers if I had to remove a sail it was a bit too heavy to take off the mast and fold for one person. If you have any problems with big sails at sea I think you'd get into trouble fast.

4. Docking. Due to the full keel of the Tayana the boat required a bow thruster. If I had to back up the boat without the thruster I had to go 2-3 knots to keep steerage. This required skill, good weather conditions and a little luck.

The moral here is that if any critical gear that helps your single hand breaks then you need to be able handle the manual system. That was the limiting factor on my boat. I definitely wouldn't recommend a 58 footer for a true single handers. It just wouldn't be fun.

[Eleven]

As a prospective and novice sailor of too many years I made an early decision to go catamaran. Have a serious look on websites and particularly troll through the Mahe 36 thread. If money is not a problem there are some beautiful new boats about but look for masts mounted at the rear bulkhead as this places all main controls right by the door into warmth and comfort.
When serious storms are due it makes sense to lower the roller reefing foresail (to get the weight lower down) and set a strong staysail. (Mahe36 doesn't have one).
Take a good look at second hand Prout's (75k sterling for 1987 model 34 footer?).
There are many others but this is the original, long lasting and much respected yardstick to judge your choice against. There are modern roomier versions by a variety of makers. Good value from S.Africa. How long are you going to own the boat you buy? What will the price of fuel be?
Single handed means keeping watch every twenty + minutes! See separate thread about two + watch keeping.
Boats are lost because the keel falls off, they catch fire, or the crew jumps off.
Plan for safety for the next ten minutes, ten hours and ten years and you'll be happy.
Good Luck. I'm, and the skipper, am/are selling the house to go sailing for up to ten years. Probably on a Prout Event 34. Doing the courses but I'd rather be learning on the job. Selling your body as crew will help but doing the courses will improve the pay while you practice. Keep in touch, Trev and Mary.

[Kanani]

I think that most yacht owners would have a tendancy to tell you that anything bigger than what they have, is too big to be short-handed.

I've done a lot of boat deliveries and in my considered opinion, the bigger the better. I owned a Passport 45 and circumnavigated with it. I found it to be very manageable, single-handed. I sailed it to Antarctica in Dec '95, single-handed. I would not have wanted anything smaller, that's for sure.

A lot of people feel very comfortable with 27' boats. All I can say is.......try bigger, you may like it. General rule of thumb, the bigger, the more comfortable and manageable in big seas.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha ScGilligan,
Welcome aboard!! I see you have been getting lots of responses and many opininions. I tend to think that smaller is better for a single person but not much smaller than 32 LOD. It really depends on what you like as far as creature comforts and onboard systems as well as your budget. If you like lots of stuff then you need a bigger boat. If you like things simple then smaller is better and much less costly. If you are single handing, smaller sails are much easier to handle. Always look for quality no matter what the vessel size is.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

[Joli]

Originally Posted by BlueRhapCity

I basically single handed a 58 foot Tayana but the admiral was there in case of something unusual. My limiting factors were:

1. Too heavy of a dink to put on the foredeck without help. (Get an inflatable and you'll be OK.

2. I couldn't deploy the gangplank single handed.

2. The anchor was 85lbs. Borderline too heavy if you have to put it in a dink or work with it off the windlass.

3. Sails. Although they were powered furlers if I had to remove a sail it was a bit too heavy to take off the mast and fold for one person. If you have any problems with big sails at sea I think you'd get into trouble fast.

4. Docking. Due to the full keel of the Tayana the boat required a bow thruster. If I had to back up the boat without the thruster I had to go 2-3 knots to keep steerage. This required skill, good weather conditions and a little luck.

The moral here is that if any critical gear that helps your single hand breaks then you need to be able handle the manual system. That was the limiting factor on my boat. I definitely wouldn't recommend a 58 footer for a true single handers. It just wouldn't be fun.

If you have no skill or experience you have no business messing around with a boat like this. The loads are so high it is very very easy to make serious mistakes.

I am not saying you have no skills. I am saying a new sailor without experience should not try to sail a boat like this.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Kanani

I think that most yacht owners would have a tendancy to tell you that anything bigger than what they have, is too big to be short-handed.

I've done a lot of boat deliveries and in my considered opinion, the bigger the better. I owned a Passport 45 and circumnavigated with it. I found it to be very manageable, single-handed. I sailed it to Antarctica in Dec '95, single-handed. I would not have wanted anything smaller, that's for sure.

A lot of people feel very comfortable with 27' boats. All I can say is.......try bigger, you may like it. General rule of thumb, the bigger, the more comfortable and manageable in big seas.

I agree, provided you have experience. If someone is just learning they should start with something that can be manhandled (under 20,000#).

I also agree that a big boat has many advantages. Soft ride, speed, load carrying capabilities, stands up to its canvas better, but they can be more challanging to dock.

[rtbates]

Amazon.com: Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere: Books: John Vigor
Amazon.com: Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Handling, and Gear: Books: John Vigor

read these two books as a starting point. First you'll find that size isn't what makes a boat suitable for blue water and two the boat is less important than the skipper's skill and experience.....

best of luck

[stevem4u]

don't whow where to post this so here it is.
Hi everyone herein, I’ve (just 67 me) been after a 36’ to 42’ bluewater long distance cruiser for some time now. As time goes on and my recent education widens (10 years in the old Navy, but no sailing, weather forecasting!) my tastes and what I wont in the outcome have narrowed. I don’t need the extra effort with a ketch. Of course my budget of around $150K is modest but I find some very good boats from around the 1980’s fit into that. In narrowing the range, I’ve started thinking that the boat should still be supported (makes it more expensive tho) but seems like that would be an asset when in far off harbors. I like the extra inside room of a C/C but some do it with aft CP. Most of all I prefer plenty of view outside but not too much to handle big water. So here I am looking at Moody’s, Island Picket’s, Hylas’s, who am I missing??? Also it’s frustrating reading the listings and they seem to expound on everything you can expect tied up, very few mention any thing about she sailing characteristics and that I’m very interested in. I don’t wont to be stuck cruising along at 6 kts when I could be doing 8kts comfortably in the other one I could have gotten if I had of known! Or dead in the water in light air and my buddy goes ghosting by me! So here I am open to suggestions from all and appreciate your impute!! SteveM

[Eleven]

to SteveM4U.
You list the standard mono's but do locate and have a look at the older, pre 1985, Prout Snowgoose at around 50k sterling in the UK.
By mono standards they are spacious, by modern Cat standards they are narrow, would suit two, ideal for one.
I saw one last week in Multihull World in the UK, Portsmouth. I fell for it hugely, like a lovely cottage, looks near new inside and out. Dearly beloved saw the Prout Event 34, 1987, and wants the extra beam, o/all and hull breadth. Saleslady tells me the snowgoose is faster but never mind the speed feel the width.
The boat is supremely safe and 'unsinkable'. The views from the ten seater lounge table are as wonderful as the scenery your in and the quality of life (ride) in cruise mode is good enough to set the table before you cook the dinner.
Do go see but don't bid on the one she wants. Loads of prouts in the US and anywhere else in the world, they seem to be everywhere but on the moon (not enough wind). Happy hunting, enjoy the good life.

[Pblais]

I’ve started thinking that the boat should still be supported (makes it more expensive tho) but seems like that would be an asset when in far off harbors.

While there are differences in boats far few of them are made of anything unusual and not like other boats. "Support" usually means you bring the boat in to them. New boats get support because they need it. New boats don't arrive 100% ready. It takes you a while to find all the things wrong with them. Old boats don't have a warranty and it takes a while to find out all the things wrong with them too. Boats don't stay in perfect condition longer than than it takes to open a beer. You can see what is common. It does not work like cars. To go off sailing means you have to do all this work. You need to know how to do it even if later you pay to have it done. With cars you drop it off at the dealer they tell you what you need. With boats you are in command of the repairs maybe getting dirty too.

I don’t wont to be stuck cruising along at 6 kts when I could be doing 8kts comfortably in the other one I could have gotten if I had of known! Or dead in the water in light air and my buddy goes ghosting by me!

Part of it is knowing how to sail and a lot of it with monohulls is the length of the water line. Your budget says 36 ft used monohull while your desire says new 55 ft. None of the boats you list are in your price range or even close. You like boats more than triple your budget for used boats. These boats new are maybe 5 to 8 times your budget. Nothing wrong with that and they each have good and bad points. It's not helping you get sailing though.

I doubt your worst problem will be you bought the wrong boat. A lot of people worry about that at first. The list of things you want is what everyone wants. You need a more refined list that really is your own. The key is learning to sail and becoming familiar with boats before you spend your money. Gain enough knowledge so you can find the boat you like and want, but understand as well.

The money has to work out or you won't be sailing your own boat. Find a way to sail now. You don't need to own a big boat to sail now. If you like sailing then you will already be having fun until you are ready spend the money. Sail clubs, yacht clubs, Wednesday night races, or a small trailer-able boat all are ways to sail now. The best of course are "other peoples boats". I'm sure you could afford to do that.

If I had it to do over again I would have been better looking, more friendly, and be sailing other peoples boats. As it is I do on occasion sail on other peoples power boats. I wouldn't want to own one of those.

[s/v Breakaway]

You have a C&C Landfall 48 now, what have you learned from that experience, and what are your future sailing plans? Those should drive your selection.

[stevem4u]

Thanks for the Cat info Elwven, but I'll stick to Mono, I tried to buy a cat once but it didn't work out. I forgot to add to my list of supported boats Hallberg-Rassy HR352's $115K and non supported Perrys and Roberts are impressive.

[stevem4u]

Hi Breakaway, Your on top of it, that C&C Landfall didn’t go through, I do have a 1985 39' C & C Landfall Offshore pilothouse @ $79K on my short list and looking to make a selection this spring. They are still supported so to speak but I don’t know how they sail. I still plan on getting away in 2.5 years and seeing my daughter in NZ then on around. SteveM

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by Joli

I agree, provided you have experience. If someone is just learning they should start with something that can be manhandled (under 20,000#).

I also agree that a big boat has many advantages. Soft ride, speed, load carrying capabilities, stands up to its canvas better, but they can be more challanging to dock.

Any vessel is "Hard to dock" when you are unfamiliar with it. Every single sailboat that I have ever sailed (many deliveries) has had unique docking characteristics. However, the smaller the boat, the less forgiving and more difficult to control. Everything happens faster on a smaller boat.

I personally would much rather dock a larger vessel, 1st time out, then a smaller one. The big difference is, you can appraoch much slower with a larger vessel without the worry of being blown around. The down side is, if you screw up with the bigger boat, the resulting damage could be worse.

Common sence would tell one that practicing docking should be done under controlled circumstances with an experienced skipper. If you are buying a used boat, most owners would be very proud to take the time to help the new buyer with the docking.

The one down-side that is legitimate, to having a bigger boat (which is relative) is that bigger boats can cost more to maintain, especially if you can't do it yourself.

I personally think that a new sailor would be far better off learning to sail on a boat appropriate for his cruising goals. Starting small and "Working up" has as many disadvantages as it does advantages.

When I was in New Zealand I gave sailing lessons to our Church's youth group on my Passport 45. In the 6 week summer course (from Mototapu Island) every one of those kids were compitant enough to sail and anchor the boat. There was no dock there but I feel confident that the kids would have picked it up easily.

Some of the kids had experience on the family sailboat that was much smaller. I put them in a separate group because I felt that their experience might intimidate the other kids. I was rather surprised at the results. The kids that had no experience took to my boat with no problem. The experienced kids had to "Un-learn" the experiences that they had on their family sailboat. It was certainly not an asset.

Learning to sail in the Haraki Gulf of New Zealand can be challenging. These kids were amazing. I was particularly impressed with the strength and bravery of the young ladies. At the beginning, the boys tended to be intimidated by each other (not by the boat).