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Old 09-09-2007, 11:00   #1
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Subsistance Whaling

Did any one see this news story? Does the preservation of traditional ways of life demand traditional hunting methods?


Calif. gray whale shot with machine gun - Yahoo! News
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Old 09-09-2007, 11:13   #2
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Using a 50 caliber machine gun is illegal for anyone in the US. It alludes to the issue with the quote that the whale "may have been shot illegally" (seems obvious that it was).
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Old 09-09-2007, 12:58   #3
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Originally Posted by Pura Vida View Post
Did any one see this news story? Does the preservation of traditional ways of life demand traditional hunting methods?


Calif. gray whale shot with machine gun - Yahoo! News
Agreed. Anyone hunting for tradition should definitely be hunting with traditional methods.

On a personal level, I am a bit unhappy with the hunting laws, since I would like to hunt using traditional methods, but am forced to use a gun/bow/crossbow or whatever. (I would like to do some trapping)
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Old 09-09-2007, 13:07   #4
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From the news story cited by PV:

"Tribe members were being held by the Coast Guard but had not been charged, said Mark Oswell, a spokesman for the law enforcement arm of the National Marine Fisheries Service.

"A preliminary report said the whale was shot with a .50-caliber machine gun, Oswell said."

From the website, G-Man Weaponry, Inc.:

Machineguns are ILLEGAL for individuals in DE, DC, HI, NY, WA, SC

The incident occurred in Neah Bay, WA.

Further, from the news story:

"Although the tribe has subsistence fishing rights to kill whales, Oswell said preliminary information indicates the whale may have been shot illegally." [emphasis added]

Gee, ya think?

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Old 09-09-2007, 13:36   #5
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I would say, what ever method kills the whale as quickly as possible. Traditional methods are far from that. Not killing the whale at all would be even better.
Who do you have that would hunt a whale for "traditional food gathering" in California?? I would have thought this an Eskimo type thing Only.
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Old 09-09-2007, 13:44   #6
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The whale is a California Gray Whale, Wheels. The incident happened in the state of Washington (further up the west coast from California).

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Old 09-09-2007, 13:54   #7
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The firearm is surprising to me and I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a 50 caliber "sniper" rifle and not a machine gun, but you never know.

Wheels, There are a few Native American tribes surviving in the Pacific Northwest contesting how and where they can hunt and fish. In the North East the battle is over where they can build casinos.

Sean, That is what I am thinking too. It seems that traditional hunting methods would have a limited impact on the wildlife. On the other hand if claiming traditional hunting rights meant Native Americans operating a factory whaling ship (extreme example) then the idea of the 'traditional way of life' kind of looses it's meaning.

My ex is a Choctaw so these things catch my eye.
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Old 09-09-2007, 14:06   #8
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In recent hunts the tribe has used a harpoon initialy with a 50cal. rifle for the kill. The rifle uses ammo from the Browning model 17 machine gun and this might have confused the reporter. It's definately not a spectator sport.
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Old 09-09-2007, 15:51   #9
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Here's an updated story that's running in the NY Times:

"NEAH BAY, Wash. (AP) -- The Makah Indian Tribe's whaling commission did not authorize the killing of a gray whale that died after being harpooned and shot several times in northwest Washington's Strait of Juan de Fuca, a member of the tribal panel said."

For the full story, go to:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/A...=1&oref=slogin

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Old 09-09-2007, 18:24   #10
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During WW II the US Navy used whales for target practice from aircraft.

The whales sort of resembled slow moving submarines.

Don't ask, don't tell even back then.

Everybody should read a book called " A Whale For The Killing".

About a bunch of Canadian rednecks trying to shoot a whale stuck in a pond: Shoot him in the eye, yeah, aim for the eye.
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Old 09-09-2007, 19:46   #11
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The last one they shot rotted on beach. A fine traditition...
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Old 09-09-2007, 20:32   #12
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Uhm, that's not true.

The last whale they killed was cut up and distributed, and the skeleton may be viewed at the tribe's museum.

While I have had some interactions with members of this tribe and am personally opposed to their attempts to revive an unnecessary and anachronistic cultural tradition, I would never spread misinformation about their actions.
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Old 09-09-2007, 20:45   #13
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I was similarly taken aback by that post, Amgine, but I concluded that the poster was making reference to the "Canadian rednecks" in the post previous to his, not the tribe. Unquestionably, the tribe would never waste prized whale meat in that way.

I'm also dubious that the .50 caliber was, in fact, a machine gun.

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Old 09-09-2007, 21:02   #14
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Something tells me the news reporters failed to preamble this story with 'A couple guys were drinking and then decided to...'
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Old 10-09-2007, 00:06   #15
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Interesting follow up article. The California Gray was removed from endangered species list and the tribe sought to take up to 5 per year. This was granted but appealed to the feds by the activists and apparently a waiver is required by the feds.

Tribe denounces whale shooting - Yahoo! News

I won't go into my personal philosophy about this other than to say it's good to be a whale or a dolphin and way bad to be a tuna.

It's good to be a horse or an eagle and way bad to be a cow or a chicken.

It's great to be a dog and way bad to be a cock or a bull.

How and what we choose to kill and eat or fight for sport baffles the hell out of me...
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