Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-07-2007, 15:52   #1
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Buying a Boat is and EASY Process!! RANT!

For anyone who thinks narrowing down the field and buying a boat is a difficult process, I have news:

Selling a boat stinks too! ha ha

Here are a few tidbits from my adventures so far:

1. Brokers are at each others' throats to get the listing. Lawsuits threatened, one guy pulled his ENTIRE company's listings from Yachtworld, due to the "garbage" he got from there. Real drama. I had to step in and tell them all to be nice.

2. Lookers - "Hey hunny! Wouldn't 4th of July be a GREAT time to go on a boat ride?? I see a pretty boat for sale. Let's drive over and spend a day out on the water."

3. More Lookers - "I am up here in Maine for vacation and I'll take a look at your boat while I'm there instead of flying up from my home in the South East USA." The day this guy is supposed to come look it is drizzling and a bit windy. I advise he may want to reschedule for the next day. Guy says: "Looks a bit rainy today. I think we'll pass on your boat."

4. Even More Lookers - "I'd like to fly up to see the boat while I'm in town for a business meeting. While I'm there I'd like to take her out for a sail, do some motoring and stay over on the boat. Should only take up 4-5 hours of your time."


I have to wonder where buyers get off wasting not only my time, but their own time!??

Most people looking at boats are not in fact planning on buying one at all. They are looking to see pretty boats, be out on the water in the beautiful weather, or for a free sail / place to stay.

Brokers are indeed a good thing when you are selling, since they can banish the lookers to look elsewhere. As a seller, I can't exactly qualify them to the same degree. I have enjoyed having a broker work on selling my boat. The ones I have done on my own weren't worth a thing. All garbage... all time wasters.


Let's also not forget the grifters I had trying to steal the boat the first time. At least this time I'm ready for them. (see guns thread)


Anyway, this is a rant on how difficult it is to sell a boat yourself. A broker is the way to go... no doubt about it. It's worth every penny of the 10%.
__________________

__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 16:17   #2
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
As anyone who has ever owned a boat can attest, it's like a lobster trap - easy to get into, but a real bitch to get out of.

TaoJones
__________________

__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 16:24   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Boat: 44 foot bruce farr fractional rig
Posts: 165
Images: 12
10% is a lot of money. I'm not sure how much your boat is worth but lets just say for easy maths it's worth 100k. That is 10 grand! I have to work a long long time to make that sort of money! If you break it down to hours at your employed hourly rate, then look at the amount of time you have spent so far in the selling process are you ahead? The last 2 yachts I've owned I have sold privately here in NZ, one was of simular value to your yacht, and one a lot cheaper. Of course the US market is probably considerably different to the market here in NZ, but keep going at it! I found that initially I'd let anyone who enquired come and have a look at the boat, but when we sold the last boat, I set up an automated email system for replies to enquiries that sent out a full spec sheet on the boat, good photos etc, and then asked them to phone me back if they were still interested. When they phoned, I invited them to go down and 'have a look' at the boat and if they were still interested to phone me and I'd open up the boat for them to have a look. Out of the 290 enquiries I got for the last boat, 15 people came to look at the boat. Of those 15, 5 wanted to have a look inside. Those were the 5 people that I personally met, and they were the 5 people that I tried to sell the boat to. Of those 5, 2 made firm offers. The process here in NZ is that you don't get a sea trial unless you have made an offer and paid a deposit, which works well as you remove the tyre kickers.

Anyhow what I'm trying to say is don't give up Shaun - I know how you feel as it is a very slow and annoying process at times, but keep in mind that 10 or so grand you will have in your back pocket out of it! I hope my experience of selling a yacht helps you.
__________________
Southernman
southernman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 16:38   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Auckland NZ
Boat: Stevens 47
Posts: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernman
The process here in NZ is that you don't get a sea trial unless you have made an offer and paid a deposit, which works well as you remove the tyre kickers.
That's the process here too...at least in my experience....We looked at a number of boats in Florida (with several brokers) and didn't even think about taking any on a sea trial....to me that comes later IF we are serious about buying....the boat we just bought (which I paid for today!!... ) was done like that...the broker wouldn't even let us look at it without a contract and offer...all contingent of course but it cost me a bunch out of pocket just to go look at it...We didn't even get a sea trial until Survey....and believe me it was worth ALL the effort too...
__________________
To incident I am prone...
Cast me out and watch me skip along.....
Rangiroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 16:45   #5
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Open for inspection...

Can anyone comment on the pros and cons of having an open for inspection with a boat.

I could imagine having static inspections in the morning and sailing in the afternoon.

Could be done every month(say).

When the boat is hauled for one inspection advertise this so all the lookers can come along too.

Would this work?
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 18:44   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernman
The process here in NZ is that you don't get a sea trial unless you have made an offer and paid a deposit, which works well as you remove the tyre kickers.
That's the way we did it as well. I think it depends on the suply and demand curve. If there are lot's of boats in a market the buyers probably have the luxury of kicking a lot of transoms without a deposit.

However, if a buyer is serious I think they will play properly and professionally. A real buyer and a real seller have a common interest to see the sale happen smoothly.

Our agreement basically said, the price is $YYY. The buyer deposits $XXX and seller will make the boat available for a period of XX days for the purpose of survey and sea trial (all at buyers cost).

The buyer then has X days to develop a list of discrepancies and decide whether to buy the boat or not. The buyer reserves the right to negotiate the price based on the survey. The seller reserves the right to not negotiate. If the buyer and seller cannot agree on terms, the seller refunds the deposit.

If the buyer cannot arrange financing or defaults for any reason other than a failure to reach terms, the seller keeps the deposit.

I would never give away "free" sails on the boat. In our case we asked for a 2 day sea trial. We wanted to have at least 8-10 hours under our feet on the boat. The seller went on the sea trial the first day for about a 20 minute motor and a 4 hour sail. The second day the seller said we could take the boat on our own. We brought the family (a big part of the deal) and we sailed about 2 hours and motored about 4 hours as we really wanted to wring out the engine.

You have an outstanding boat and you don't have to give away free samples. I reckon there is some urgency but be patient. I've said it before, if I was in the US or your boat were here, I'd be all over it. You've done an outstanding job on her.

Broker or no broker is dependant on how much time you have to market and work the sale. I probably wouldn't use a broker on anything less than $150k.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 18:56   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
10 percent sounds a lot - it IS a lot, but you see some people who say "I can sell the boat cheaper since I'm not going through a broker" so in effect they are giving the brokers fee to the buyer, and taking on all the hassles of selling the boat themselves.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 19:34   #8
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Interesting posts, and right on the money. I'd have to say you are all right. It was mostly a rant.

I am still plugging away at the private sales, although the broker is doing an excellent job with his (better qualified, follows standard process like you all mentioned, etc...)

I suppose some of the worst stuff is really the stuff I have backed myself into here:

1) Living on a boat and keeping it in showroom condition for lookers is very close to a full time job.

2) Ferrying the lookers back and forth (especially when my outboard lost power!) can take up to 1 1/2 hours depending on how fat they are.

3) Cleaning up, ferrying them and showing the boat takes *all day* for each one I get. I have just enough time to play email and phone tag with a few more, and it's the end of the day.


It just really amazed me how high the percentage of people is that are not actually buying a boat, but are more interested in "getting out on the water."

I wish I could do the process Southernman mentions. What an excellent system of nearly automatic elimination. Very well done!

How nice it would be to be able to have them "go take a look" to eliminate that first 290! Instead, I have to ferry all 290 out to the boat, clean the boat for them (we live aboard) and show them around the place... even if they aren't serious! Ugh.

I certainly hand't planned well for this part of the boat life cycle when deciding to live aboard.

I'm not a greedy guy though - I don't mind giving the broker the 10% (we are listed with brokers at $102K). He is definitely earning that money by weeding out the riff raff and ferrying people out to the boat for showing. Leaves me to polish stuff.
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 01:06   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
It is usually 6% here in NZ. 10% is a heck of a chunk.
I also agree with the deposit before the seatrial part. Sean you need to be firm here, or you are going to have all sorts of tossers using you. If someone is really interested in buying, they will be more than happy to do it this way. Send a "looker" the photo's and details. Then if they are really interested, you can allow them an inspection. After that, it is deposit and then a sea trial and survey at their expense.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 03:58   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,579
Images: 240
Sean:
Youíre certainly doing it the hard way - selling, while living aboard at anchor.

I think you've made the smart choice, to use a broker.

I recall a single handed liveaboard, selling his boat, who reduced his personal gear (stowed aboard) to a single small carry-all bag. He slept aboard, but that was about all!
It was funny to watch him scramble off the boat, bag in hand, having just received a brokerís call (bringing potential buyers, now).
He sold the boat, for his asking price, in less than a month.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 04:35   #11
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
Sean:
Youíre certainly doing it the hard way - selling, while living aboard at anchor.

I think you've made the smart choice, to use a broker.

I recall a single handed liveaboard, selling his boat, who reduced his personal gear (stowed aboard) to a single small carry-all bag. He slept aboard, but that was about all!
It was funny to watch him scramble off the boat, bag in hand, having just received a brokerís call (bringing potential buyers, now).
He sold the boat, for his asking price, in less than a month.
No question about it, Gord. This is indeed the hard way.

I too rush off the boat at a moment's notice, often passing the broker and interested party on the way.

I haven't let anyone deviate from the normal process (deposit before sea trial, etc...), but you'd be amazed how many want to.
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 07:01   #12
Registered User
 
markpj23's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Black Hills, SD
Boat: Now Boatless
Posts: 1,148
Images: 47
When we bought PJs Song the owner was living aboard almost full-time. He had a real bad time with people actually stealing gear off the boat during showings when he wasn't around. Lost a good pair of compass binoculars, some spares, etc.

I was amazed at the chutzpah of some people nowadays.

Good luck Sean - and continue to keep your eyes open during this process!

__________________
Mark
markpj23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 18:03   #13
Registered User
 
seafox's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: new zealand
Boat: Lotus 10.6
Posts: 1,270
Images: 26
Hi Sean,

I used to sell houses for a living. Although presentation was important, buyers do compare apples with apples. If your boat is the best value in the market for that particular type of boat it should sell without having to keep it in showroom condition all the time.

The ten grand you pay the broker is $16,393 here at 39% tax rate. (ie:You have to earn $16,393, pay the tax at 39% to get 10k) It is good money saved if you can sell privately. You would have to expect some pain to make $16,393 extra wouldn't you?

I have never used a broker to buy or sell a boat and have always sold my houses privately too.

I reckon Sourthernman is right on the money.
__________________

__________________
seafox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.