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Old 31-01-2012, 10:55   #61
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Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

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I do have a question. How common is "Uninsured boater" insurance
UB is the most commonly misunderstood aspect of marine insurance. Unlike Uninsured motorists insurance, it does NOT pay for damage to your vehicle. It only pays for medical or personal injury to you or your guests if an unisurd boat hits you. Your hull damage is always paid for either by your hull coverage or by the other party's liability (P&I) if they have insurance and are at fault. So always best to get the other party's insurance information if you think they are at fault, since then you don't have to pay a deductible.
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Old 31-01-2012, 14:15   #62
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Originally Posted by TabbyCat
UB is the most commonly misunderstood aspect of marine insurance. Unlike Uninsured motorists insurance, it does NOT pay for damage to your vehicle. It only pays for medical or personal injury to you or your guests if an unisurd boat hits you. Your hull damage is always paid for either by your hull coverage or by the other party's liability (P&I) if they have insurance and are at fault. So always best to get the other party's insurance information if you think they are at fault, since then you don't have to pay a deductible.
How do you protect yourself from the expense of being damaged by someone with no insurance or assets to go after?
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Old 31-01-2012, 17:39   #63
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I find this interesting. In an insurance balance sheet world somewhere I am paying for your insurance. A few ideas. you put a million dollars on a anchor. If I hit you I do more damage then if you hit me. Just scratching your paint is probably more then my boats value. So i am protecting me or protecting you. I carry way more liability insurance then hull coverage. Because you stuck your expensive boat into an environment where things can go wrong and you might get #%%^ up. In effect I an paying for the guy who is sticking insane amounts of money in a sometimes dangerous place. Just thinking if your going in the water understand the risk and be prepared to a level that you can accept the risk. Don't blame other people when the world on the water gets nasty. The boat was in a place subject to a storm and bad things happened sometes that happens.
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Old 31-01-2012, 17:53   #64
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Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

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I find this interesting. In an insurance balance sheet world somewhere I am paying for your insurance. A few ideas. you put a million dollars on a anchor. If I hit you I do more damage then if you hit me. Just scratching your paint is probably more then my boats value. So i am protecting me or protecting you. I carry way more liability insurance then hull coverage. Because you stuck your expensive boat into an environment where things can go wrong and you might get #%%^ up. In effect I an paying for the guy who is sticking insane amounts of money in a sometimes dangerous place. Just thinking if your going in the water understand the risk and be prepared to a level that you can accept the risk. Don't blame other people when the world on the water gets nasty. The boat was in a place subject to a storm and bad things happened sometes that happens.
How is this any different from on the road where if I drive a junker and you drive a really nice car? If I hit your really nice car with my junker, I am responsible. End of Story. It doesn't matter that "stuff" does happen out there. There are rules that dictate who pays in each situation.

As a result, I will spend more on liability insurance than I do for my own boat since if I hit an expensive boat or, god forbid, harm someone it really doesn't matter what my boat is worth.

That said, let's assume the other guy is not financially responsible for the damage he does. How do I protect myself in that situation? Or is that simply the definition of risk since I will buy insurance because I have assets to protect and he does not?
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Old 31-01-2012, 18:05   #65
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I think there is little diffence. If you want to put a million dollars on a road with teen drivers in a road hostile environment of road rage etc... You should understand the risk. No idea how the insurance guys balance this but I am pretty sure I am helping pay the premium for your risk. In some way that's a perspective I have played with. Not sure it's right but pretty sure you need know your risk. Last storm came through here I had fall back anchors out. I was ready to drop my mooring and fall back on a anchor less someone dragged down on me. The risk was someone up stream could break loose and or drag down on me. My best preparation was to preset anchors that I could fall back on. It could be said that I understood the risk and did everything possible to limit the exposure.
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Old 31-01-2012, 20:43   #66
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Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

dave-
"How is this any different from on the road where "
The difference is that there are different laws and different traditions governing cars and boats. There are laws requiring a minimum tread on your tires, to hold your car on the road. There are no comparable laws governing grounds tackle on a boat. But there also usually ARE requirements for moorings and mooring inspections in most anchorages.
The devil's in the details, and while cars and boat may both be motor vehicles--they're not the same.
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Old 31-01-2012, 20:58   #67
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Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

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Originally Posted by davefromoregon View Post
How do you protect yourself from the expense of being damaged by someone with no insurance or assets to go after?
Simple - you don't anchor anywhere near them if it is possible. Or take a marina slip if the anchorage is full of "uninsured" potential boat wreckers.

I carry a lot of fenders just in case some less than polite boat anchors on top of me and it is too late or not possible to move. I have had to move several times after arriving boats insist on anchoring so close that they pose a threat if wind or conditions change later.

The "protection" comes in not putting your boat in harm's way in the first place. And if you do or have to, then you have to accept the risk personally. That's life . . .
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Old 31-01-2012, 22:25   #68
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Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

Any boat on the water is in a hazardous place, whether anchored, moored, at a marina or underway. We boaters know that.

Here in American Samoa we've four sailboats tied to the dock and nine sailboats in the harbour - three at anchor, six on moorings. In the past two months, two of the boats on moorings drug thier moorings across the harbour (saving themselves by dropping anchor), and one broke loose, ending up in the shallows (tugboats pulled her off and then to the dock). The three boats at anchor held fast during the squalls and storms.

The tsunami two years ago changed the harbour bottom conditions, yet a properly sized, properly deployed anchor, with proper scope, SEEMS more effective than hiring a local crew to build/set a mooring.

What does this have to do with the thread?

Well, the boats on anchor (myself being one) don't go ashore when the winds kick up and maintain anchor watch even throughout the night. Why people on moorings believe they might not need to have anchor watch escapes me.

Single handed? Okay... Hire somebody to be aboard and watch-keep your boat, or schmooze with other boaters to watch-keep and act. Moored? Have an anchor ready so that even a child could deploy it (even if that means having 50 meters of chain laced out on deck). Anchored? Have that second anchor ready to go - again, easily deployable by anyone... such as your concerned neighbor.

Ferro-boat owner hired help and tried to be responsible. But why did he not have a second anchor ready to go?

Wood-boat owner thought he was okay. But why did he not have SOMEBODY watch-keep his boat in bad wxr?

I don't understand this situation. My boat, I watch her / protect her. Who else is responsible besides ME? My life, and my wife, and my boat. Not my neighbor's responsibility.
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Old 31-01-2012, 23:16   #69
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Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

osirisail and svmaribe are correct when stateing who is responsible for their own boats.

We are also responsisible for each other, when you see someone else needing help, don't just stand there and point - go help them.
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Old 01-02-2012, 00:33   #70
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Originally Posted by John A
osirisail and svmaribe are correct when stateing who is responsible for their own boats.

We are also responsisible for each other, when you see someone else needing help, don't just stand there and point - go help them.
John you are so very right. Sadly this mentality seems to be going the way of the dodo bird especially with my generation. (kids of baby boomers) All I can ask is keep doing what you're doing and hopefully some of the folks will learn by watching. I'm not saying this as a blanket statement before anyone gets that idea. It just seems like I see it much more frequently amongst my peers. When I've needed a hand the volunteers were generally in the 55-85 age range. I got lucky and missed the generation me bus. SC
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:07   #71
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pirate Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

Quote:
Originally Posted by svmariane View Post
Any boat on the water is in a hazardous place, whether anchored, moored, at a marina or underway. We boaters know that.

Here in American Samoa we've four sailboats tied to the dock and nine sailboats in the harbour - three at anchor, six on moorings. In the past two months, two of the boats on moorings drug thier moorings across the harbour (saving themselves by dropping anchor), and one broke loose, ending up in the shallows (tugboats pulled her off and then to the dock). The three boats at anchor held fast during the squalls and storms.

The tsunami two years ago changed the harbour bottom conditions, yet a properly sized, properly deployed anchor, with proper scope, SEEMS more effective than hiring a local crew to build/set a mooring.

What does this have to do with the thread?

Well, the boats on anchor (myself being one) don't go ashore when the winds kick up and maintain anchor watch even throughout the night. Why people on moorings believe they might not need to have anchor watch escapes me.

Single handed? Okay... Hire somebody to be aboard and watch-keep your boat, or schmooze with other boaters to watch-keep and act. Moored? Have an anchor ready so that even a child could deploy it (even if that means having 50 meters of chain laced out on deck). Anchored? Have that second anchor ready to go - again, easily deployable by anyone... such as your concerned neighbor.

Ferro-boat owner hired help and tried to be responsible. But why did he not have a second anchor ready to go?

Wood-boat owner thought he was okay. But why did he not have SOMEBODY watch-keep his boat in bad wxr?

I don't understand this situation. My boat, I watch her / protect her. Who else is responsible besides ME? My life, and my wife, and my boat. Not my neighbor's responsibility.
+A1..

The impression I've gotten is that both boats are uninsured...
Who dragged on who and caused the damage is irrelevant...
they should just suck it up...
they're both adults and were doing it eye's open...
This is not a lot different to running aground, hitting a log...
they'd swallow that...
but the chance of a buck makes this unpalatable....
Which is the more responsible owner... the one on board in times of bad conditions protecting his (and others technically) boat...
Or the Screw You I'm covered so why should I bother...
I know which I'd prefer in front of me...
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:12   #72
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Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
+A1..

The impression I've gotten is that both boats are uninsured...
Who dragged on who and caused the damage is irrelevant...
they should just suck it up...
they're both adults and were doing it eye's open...
This is not a lot different to running aground, hitting a log...
they'd swallow that...
but the chance of a buck makes this unpalatable....
Which is the more responsible owner... the one on board in times of bad conditions protecting his (and others technically) boat...
Or the Screw You I'm covered so why should I bother...
I know which I'd prefer in front of me...
And another +1
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:00   #73
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Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

well there was another 5 minutes of my life gone

how about an update by the OP on what really happened in this case?
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:06   #74
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pirate Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
well there was another 5 minutes of my life gone

how about an update by the OP on what really happened in this case?
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:01   #75
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Re: Who is Responsible for Anchor Dragging

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How do you protect yourself from the expense of being damaged by someone with no insurance or assets to go after?
Quote:
1) Physical protection: try not to anchor behind boats that "look uninsured" -poorly maintained, unusual construction methods, etc. It's not always easy to tell if a boat is insured just from looking at it, but some are obvious. Don't be afraid to ask your neighbor who has anchored too close if they have insurance. And be willing to move if an unisured boat anchors ahead of you, even if you got there first.

2) Financial Protection: if you have full coverage insurance (not just liability coverage) then you are financially protected. Your hull coverage pays when it's the other guy's fault. (but yes, you do end up paying the deductilbe).
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