More Advice for the Perfect Boat Please

[Group9]

Just for the singlehanding issue. Number one is a good autopilot.

Singlehanding without one is doable, but a huge pain in the ass. Singlehanding with one, is quite easy.

Second is a good comfortable harness and tether. Since you're new, it can't be emphasized enough how bad it is to fall off a boat under autopilot when you are singlehanding and not tied to the boat.

[justwannadoit]

Hi Boatman:
Thank you for the detailed opinion. Can you please expound/elaborate on why you like, "Furling headsail with twin grooves"?
Many thanks!

[boatman61]

Goose wing on the downhills...
Also if you need to do a fast sail change on the move and maintain momentum for some reason.. not an essential just something I've used and liked..

[SaltyMonkey]

Agree tiller - personal preference

Trying to find a 30+ boat with a tiller is a big iffy these days.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Teknav

Free advice...charter a few times with your wife, different boat designs/lengths...you will eventually get the picture of what will work for you. Also, visit boat shows like Annapolis' and Miami's. Good luck! Mauritz

I think this is excellent advice. Trying to figure out what are good candidate boats at this stage of your sailing career is like trying to select the perfect baseball bat when you've never learned how to properly swing one. It's all other people's opinions, some of which are no doubt spot on, but many of which are moot in respect to your needs in ways that you cannot yet evaluate. I'm not saying that you should not tuck away everything that you read here for reference, just that much of it is somewhat disembodied information that is very difficult for you to put in useful context.

The best education is going to be time spent on boats actually sailing them. Just looking over a boat at the dock is almost useless unless you have enough experience to evaluate what you are looking at.

I have been sailing my entire life, much of it on big boats, but have never owned a big cruiser or lived on one for an extended period. I'm currently looking to purchase one and am working with an extremely knowledgeable broker who has sailed all over the world for the past thirty years, racing, crossing oceans, delivering boats, and owning and living aboard quite a few along the way. During a recent outing with him to look at a few candidates we past one at the dock that caught my eye. Beautiful 45' boat, sleek and yet classic, with what looked like a very liveable configuration. I stopped and asked "What do you think of these?" He glanced at the boat, paused for about two seconds, then reeled off about ten aspects of the boat that would make it a poor choice, all of them visible from where we were standing. He looked at me and arched a brow and smiled coyly. Each of his observations hit me like a brick as being obvious as soon as they left his lips, yet none of them would have occurred to me without the benefit of his experience.

Get out there and sail. Volunteer to work as a crew member on boat deliveries. Spend time on boats with an eye to your ultimate objectives and needs and you'll learn first hand what does and does not work for you.

[Dev0n60]

Hi there;
Everyone has an opinion on the "perfect boat" and many would most likely be right! For my part, I bought a used Valiant 40 in the late 80's and have never looked back. I singlehanded the boat as far as Rarotonga (Cook Islands) and there met the love of my life and so the single days are over. I think the Valiant was what she liked more than me!
The boat has been awesome. I have now lived aboard for almost 24 years. The older Valiants do have there drawbacks (fire retardant resins used) but you can get them cheap. We have done the hull fix-up for the fire-retardant goop Uniflite used about 14 years ago. It is not that hard or expensive to do.... just very time consuming... and you must be fit. So far, no more issues at all...
40 feet used to be a "big boat" but from the well monied people we see out here today, on much bigger boats, it seems not so anymore.
I always joke that even if someone gave me a bigger boat for being a "great guy" i would have to turn around a sell her. The point is that 40 feet is about what I can afford to maintain and not have to work too often. As boats increase in size the cost of owning them increases exponentially. Anything you can think of for the boat gets more costly. That means you have to be wealthy or working to keep it going. As we are not wealthy we rely on our ingenuity to keep things working mostly. This has worked out well (mostly) for all this time.
The Valiant 40 has been a synonymous with ocean-going cruising for decades now. Sea Kindly and loaded with design features to keep you comfortable. The older ones are a bargain if you can put some elbow grease into sprucing them up. Thats my '2 cents' worth.
Good luck with the search!

[Coyote24]

I will agree with Boatman61.

Ah yes 40 ft is nice, bigger could be nicer too.
I lived and owned both 40+ sail and power boat.
I sailed, race, delivered, owned from 16 to 62ft over the years.
So Why 30 something ft?
Its manageable, both financially and physically.
I would like to have 30ft of water length but that takes me to close to 40ft overall. a 30ft boat that is kept at its optimal sailng speed will be as fast as a 40ft that is not tuned because it is too much wrk to do so, etc.
30 ft allow you good headroom, I prefer a wheel to a tiller.
And that is what I am actually looking for at the moment.

What Am I looking at? well I am open to every boat I see, but here are a few ideas.

- Long in the tooth is the Offshore 30, very well build solid.
will likely need re-power and re-wire etc... you can think of it as an advantage! I would look for the bowsprit version. with something like this I would likely look to be as independent as possible so 12v everything, a new diesel with 2 alternators and good battery banks, maybe a 30A connection but no battery charger, or electric fridge, or AC etc. about 7-10k$
- PC Crealock 31 (1987 and later) to me very close to the perfect boat, you can look them up. It has all the amenities and in above average quality. expect 90k$+
- happy mix. O'day 32, they were well built, but are in a lower class of boat (plastic ports openings etc) never the less I enjoyed sailing (delivery) it . say 15k$
- finally Catalina 28, a good starter boat, even for island hoping. (to the Bahamas for example), I see them for 7-8k$

You mentioned that this would be your first boat in this cruising category so I would suggest go with a lower price, you can learn what you like and dont like and look for that on your next boat!
Do you absolutely want a liner inside or is staring at a grp ceiling with possible condensation ok?
There are very nice European boats, they can be good bargain because ppl do not know them (Amel, Wauquiez, Dufour...)

I am looking at full keel or 3/4 and a skeg, contrary to when racing i want a boat that will track easily, I want to be able to hit a log, a picnic table or a dead head at night, without worrying too much.
I am in the pacific north west, if I was still on the east coast my choice could be different.
Look up 'empty pocket' on the net, a 30ft out of Florida, I believe, they might be inspirational for what you want to do!

in the end buy the smallest you are comfortable with in the highest quality you can afford.

It goes on and on and on...

Cheers,

[SV Maclas]

Gotta say my favorite part of our boat is the pilothouse. Great when travelling and even better at anchor.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dev0n60

Hi there;

The Valiant 40 has been a synonymous with ocean-going cruising for decades now. Sea Kindly and loaded with design features to keep you comfortable. The older ones are a bargain if you can put some elbow grease into sprucing them up. Thats my '2 cents' worth.
Good luck with the search!

Mind you I've seen about 2 in the whole of Europe , yet we have a lot of ocean cruisers hereabouts . That design is very NA in orientation. The French are prolific ocean sailors , as are the Kiwis , they seem to prefer faster modern designs for their typical cruise in " bluewater". It demonstrates that a lot of it has nothing to do with inate characteristics but personal preference


Ps. I would suggest posters that eulogising your own boat isn't really useful. I mean how many owners do you meet that say , " yeah I have an "X" , its crap. "
Dave

[robert sailor]

Europeans have been a funny bunch, especially the French when it comes to choosing offshore boats but I think they have been out done by the Yanks. Back in the day the French all wanted to copy one of their heros and everyone was buying heavy slug like sailboats made of steel. The Americans were trying to copy boats designed in the 1800's and Tiawan was the supply centre. The French got over their poor ideas of what made a good offshore boat but the Americans, at least quite a few are still hanging on to the old designs. I think thats why you don't see too many of these designs in Europe as most of the sailors there are not interested in heavy slow in light air sailboats.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Europeans have been a funny bunch, especially the French when it comes to choosing offshore boats but I think they have been out done by the Yanks. Back in the day the French all wanted to copy one of their heros and everyone was buying heavy slug like sailboats made of steel. The Americans were trying to copy boats designed in the 1800's and Tiawan was the supply centre. The French got over their poor ideas of what made a good offshore boat but the Americans, at least quite a few are still hanging on to the old designs. I think thats why you don't see too many of these designs in Europe as most of the sailors there are not interested in heavy slow in light air sailboats.

Well , its a good yarn ...,

Dave

[Coyote24]

Well as for the french, since the 1950 with Moitessier, Tabarly, and then Loic Perront, Francois Gabard just this year, etc. we have a long tradition of 1- single handling and 2- innovative designs, ocean multi-huls, foil design (hydroptere) and innovative yards (groupe finot, etc) and then the 'go small' has been exploited for decades by young adventurous sailors along the coast and in racing (look up the 6.5M minitransat). this culture and attitude of 'pushing the envelope' trickled down to the production boats. Personally I did a 180' I was all for the fast designs even looking at de-tuning a Figaro boat, but now I am looking at what I mentioned before. There are many reasons that maybe do not belong on this tread.
you can look at designs here.

Yacht Designs Database

[Coyote24]

A dream boat of mine from a few years ago, un-attainable but still... Yes it was sold as a fast cruising boat...
FOX 50, page d'accueil

... you can also dream with all their other designs.

[Coyote24]

ah, you could be forgiven for looking at Choy Lee's, but one of the best boat I sailed on (long cruises) was the Sparhawk 41 (or 42??) 2 unstayed carbon masts, beautiful appointment fast fast fast a fantastic canard keel, desinged and built after the fastnet tragedy, unfortunately very few built due to the market crash in the '80s. they also made a 30 ft version that I never tried. in submersible. you get them for peanuts. above many many high priced boat I sailed on ... I would say above some 800k$ boat I delivered. one came up in Canada a few years ago (3?) and an the minister of defence of a european country jumped on it sight un-seen, and had it crated and delivered, sold within 3 days...

[H Romberg]

Originally Posted by justwannadoit

I am a minimalist to the extreme. I once lived for 5 months with only a backpack and 40 pounds of gear. My wife……………………………….Nope! Perhaps I will never get to the point that I put your advice to use, but I Love to sail in inland waters and I Love the ocean (Almost got to spend 2 weeks with Jacques Cousteau!) And I am determined! Someone once said that, “The whole world steps aside for a man who knows where he goes”. Please comment so I can get there. Thank you.

In a fit of shamelessly self-serving capitalism, I offer you... The perfect cruising and live-aboard yacht for a man with a yen for adventure and a wife who likes a good looking luxurious comfortable safe boat.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ht-100462.html

She's beautiful, sea kindly, designed by the legendary Ted Brewer, and built to sail around the 5 capes in safety and style. Heck, she's even equipped for it.