Am I spoiled or truly burned out?

[ol1970]

Okay, in a way I'm they guy that chose option B and I am thrilled I did. I retired at 43 about 9 months ago and life has never been better. By the numbers I could have pulled the plug at 37 and live off the mythical 4% of my income producing assets, but at 37 I think you still have more left in the tank so to speak...is it not really a question if you can but if you should. Keep working a few years, you are so close to the goal line that I think it would be a shame to quit now. Kicking the can down the road has allowed me to double my monthly expense number and lower my draw to under 2% of assets annually. Essentially there would need to be an outlier event take place like a freaking comet hitting NYC for the plan to fail...but at that point we are all screwed anyway lol...I'm not too worried about the outliers. Thanks for your service btw!

[ArmySailor]

Originally Posted by Curious Sailor

I unsubscribe do to this but it keeps coming up.. No trying to be insensitive here but please... Army you are in a better position than most of the people responding to your thread.. Please step up and let everyone off the hook.. Dilemma? You really don't have one.. Stay and serve you're country to fulfill your commitment? Yes ultimately your choice but look at the times... The US military needs all of the experience and commitment it can get in these troubled times... So the choice is yours as a Soldier.. I was in during the Cold War... I did not separate until Ronald Reagan told Mr Gorbachev to tear down that wall... For me it was an easy decision.. It wasn't a personal should I stay or should I go kind of thing... It was an " ok, were alright now" ... Apologies I understand where yo are coming from and wish you the best.. But never forget the oath you took to protect and defend the constitution .. Never.. The time for you is not far off... Do what you can, do what you have to, but please, do what you should do...

Step up and let everyone off the hook? I'm sorry - I didn't realize you were here against your will. I asked for help with my dilemma, people volunteered to give their take on it. Right?

As for my service...

There may never be an "ok we're alright now" moment in my lifetime. Things now are not as cut and dry as they were back then. There are, however, moments where I'm confident that we're in good hands with the next crop of superior officers. In growing those officers, my peers have succeeded. If that next crop were not capable - we would have failed. We did not fail. I am not irreplaceable - that means success.

As for my commitment - I first volunteered as a private for 4 years in the infantry. Fulfilled that. Then as an officer for 6 years, also infantry, fulfilled that. During that time, I was wounded once, I have a purple heart and also earned the bronze star in combat. I still decided to stay and serve my country, for yet more time. I had to beg to stay in the army after being wounded. I did so. I've done so, honorably. This is my crossroads. Every morning after I shower I rub my scars with a towel and think of my guys that *didn't* get choice and time in their lives and I realize I need to live my life in honor of theirs.

This is an all volunteer Army, and I have a window to get out after 20 years of honorable reserve and active service as well as 15 years of active service. Enlisted and officer. Combat arms as well as support element.

I have fulfilled my commitment to this country, yes? If not, how do I determine when I have? When is "enough" enough?

Tell me, what *should* I do? What is my moral obligation at this time?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by ArmySailor

If I do this, I’ll be on a modest budget. (~2000-2500 a month). I do have a kitty in reserve to pay for major repairs, a new car in a few years, blah blah blah. But I'll have to be careful with that budget. very careful. It has to last until age 60.

If you want to do it now, do it now. You may not reach 60. Several of my friends from school, and one of the best friends I ever had, never made 50. 2 barely passed 40.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Soldier,

I enter this discussion somewhat reluctantly, because I have no experience with the military. Yet there are some parallels that might be of interest to you, so what the hell...

I was a physicist at a large DOE laboratory. I was happy in my work (unlike your situation) for it was intellectually challenging and even had some benefits to the world at large. I was in a steep portion of advancement at age 48, but I took a year's leave of absence to go cruising, and the hook was deeply set: this was the life I wanted to live. Our finances were not quite able to sustain us at that point, so I returned to the lab for an additional 18 months. During that time Ann and I were married, and our fiscal situation stabilized somewhat. We left again on another leave without pay, and shortly thereafter the lab found itself overstaffed and underfunded and offered an early retirement package. Not too good, but way better than nothing, so I took it. Almost without exception I was advised against this path. You well know the patter:"if you stay x more years, your retirement benefit will be sooo much better, etc". And they were, of course, technically correct, for I would have had more income. But I would have been those several years older, and I'd just had a friend and coworker of my own age die unexpectedly... a very sobering experience for me.

I have never regretted the decision to take the early out. Ann and I are both frugal by nature, and have prospered on our combined (if somewhat meager) benefits. As we passed the magic 65 year mark, some additional SS benefits have been added, and we are quite comfortable on our income. The wonderful experiences of our 29 years of cruising FAR outweigh any possible financial advantages that might have happened. And for that matter, this lifestyle is so much healthier than high stress working situations that our physical health is likely better too.

Only you can judge whether your fiscal situation will satisfy your needs. Folks who posit some nominal figure (2K/month... 5K/month... whatever) can only judge what they think will make them happy. We know that many such figures are wrong for our case. And really, from the successes that you have had in the Army, I judge that you are an energetic and competent worker. Should you find after leaving the Army that either you are bored or that you need more income, you should have no difficulty in reentering the workforce.

As to criticizing you for abandoning your moral commitment to the country... what crap! You have already done more than your share. Those of us who have not served in the military do appreciate the years that you have already contributed.

I'm sure that this decision is an agonizing one for you, and the conflicting advice proffered above isn't much help. I hope that you can find the right path...

Good luck,

Jim

[Chamisa]

Regarding the "women don't like boat poor(isn) boat bums....not so! My life changed when I met a broke sailor, me 39 divorced, him 43 and never married. I was excited to meet a wonderful man with no baggage or bad furniture. We married a year later and traveled the world on the cheap for a year, worked hard for ten, invested in real estate then left on our first boat to the Carribbean....fast forward and we celebrate our 23rd anniversary by buying our third 42' sloop in the BVI's. We have always gone in and out of the workforce, taken a year or two off here and there... very doable, and have been invigorated by all the different challenges we've faced together.
Just wanted to say that tho we are now a bit slower than we were, we find that life keeps getting better doing something you love with someone you love. So why not hold that standard for yourself now?
Best of luck to you.

[reed1v]

Yup. Its a big world out there and a lot can happen.

[Juho]

ArmySailor,

I hope this discussion helps you in deciding what is the best path forward. You obviously have already worked hard and taken your fair share of the load, so it should now be time to do what suits you best.

I have also cooled down quite a bit. I work only some reasonable amount of time, and leave all the rest for other interesting and important stuff, including sailing. I guess the idea is to cut all the unnecessary stuff out and focus more on what is important in life. Good for you, good for everybody.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Chamisa.

[TheThunderbird]

Dear ArmySailor
You did a lot by and far :-)

In terms of moral obligations, society at large, and your country, have some towards you!

I'd say... that the moral obligation to you must for from INSIDE, not from the outer world any longer!

Which one!?

Be honest and purposeful.

Be the happiness of those close to you
Be happy yourself!

The US CONSTITUTION STRESSES THIS VERY POINT, as to my understanding :-)

[Cadence]

Sounds as if it should have gone to Ann Landers. My only advice is consider what the income will be worth years down the line. With inflation what looks good today will probably suck in just a couple of years.

[akprb]

This is a great thread and apologies in the delay getting back to you :-) This is my reward for "clearing my desk"!

Yes the pension at age 60 is your trump card! That 4,500/month plus Health Care (3,000/month value?, Our crappy Obama policy which we didn't get (google Medishare for an affordable alternative) was quoted around 2,600/month. Who knows what will be in place by then but whatever it is your access to it at 60 has a monthly value, lets say 2,500. That puts you at 7K per month, at a modest return of say 4% gives that a value of around 2.1M. Gosh I should stayed in the Coast Guard for 20! Good job on that and yes a real asset.

For the 22 years in between I guess you better defined "retirement" and I hear ya. Life changes a lot over the years and sounds like you are the kind of man to roll with it and rise to the challenges. I'm in line with many of the other posters, go and do it. The Net Present Value of those experiences, good and bad, is infinite.

Probably the worst financial decision we ever made (on paper) was leaving with our kids to sail the world. We sold 1/2 of our assets that were paying down at a rapid pace. That being said if we had not done the trip I can safely say I'd likely have ended up a divorced overweight alcoholic with two kids I barely knew or dead (boy that sounds harsh).

Nothing wrong with building a business that people willingly pay you for and growing it to a point where you can enjoy its fruits, the challenge is not making that the end in itself which is sadly what many do and miss the ride.

Enjoy the ride :-)

[ArmySailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day Soldier,

I enter this discussion somewhat reluctantly, because I have no experience with the military. Yet there are some parallels that might be of interest to you, so what the hell...

I was a physicist at a large DOE laboratory. I was happy in my work (unlike your situation) for it was intellectually challenging and even had some benefits to the world at large. I was in a steep portion of advancement at age 48, but I took a year's leave of absence to go cruising, and the hook was deeply set: this was the life I wanted to live. Our finances were not quite able to sustain us at that point, so I returned to the lab for an additional 18 months. During that time Ann and I were married, and our fiscal situation stabilized somewhat. We left again on another leave without pay, and shortly thereafter the lab found itself overstaffed and underfunded and offered an early retirement package. Not too good, but way better than nothing, so I took it. Almost without exception I was advised against this path. You well know the patter:"if you stay x more years, your retirement benefit will be sooo much better, etc". And they were, of course, technically correct, for I would have had more income. But I would have been those several years older, and I'd just had a friend and coworker of my own age die unexpectedly... a very sobering experience for me.

I have never regretted the decision to take the early out. Ann and I are both frugal by nature, and have prospered on our combined (if somewhat meager) benefits. As we passed the magic 65 year mark, some additional SS benefits have been added, and we are quite comfortable on our income. The wonderful experiences of our 29 years of cruising FAR outweigh any possible financial advantages that might have happened. And for that matter, this lifestyle is so much healthier than high stress working situations that our physical health is likely better too.

Only you can judge whether your fiscal situation will satisfy your needs. Folks who posit some nominal figure (2K/month... 5K/month... whatever) can only judge what they think will make them happy. We know that many such figures are wrong for our case. And really, from the successes that you have had in the Army, I judge that you are an energetic and competent worker. Should you find after leaving the Army that either you are bored or that you need more income, you should have no difficulty in reentering the workforce.

As to criticizing you for abandoning your moral commitment to the country... what crap! You have already done more than your share. Those of us who have not served in the military do appreciate the years that you have already contributed.

I'm sure that this decision is an agonizing one for you, and the conflicting advice proffered above isn't much help. I hope that you can find the right path...

Good luck,

Jim

almost without exception advised against this, indeed. That is my situation. My professional peers all advise against anything radical. However, these are the peers that are married, have a mega-house, 2-3 new car rotations every 5 years, etc. I have zero financial liabilities except rent and have simplified my life to the precious few material goods I value. Yes, technically I'll have more money if I work more, as you would have. But age cannot be bought back. Whereas if I have to work down the line, I can. I do recognize that boredom is something quite unexpected that folks encounter upon exiting the workforce. I do think the odds are against that in my case. I tend to live a very purposeful life, and I engage in things that invigorate me and invest my time and presence in things that I value (which is mostly people I care for - not just idle time "gone fishin!"). I'm of the mind that I have no right to be bored...just to exist in this world as a conscious human being is a cosmic lottery ticket winner, of sorts. To be born in a time and place where I can choose my own path is something most people have never had. Anyway. Too much for this forum.

The conflicting advise is actually what I came here for. I want as many different wild perspectives as possible to help digest what other people know and have experienced.

Originally Posted by Chamisa

Regarding the "women don't like boat poor(isn) boat bums....not so! My life changed when I met a broke sailor, me 39 divorced, him 43 and never married. I was excited to meet a wonderful man with no baggage or bad furniture. We married a year later and traveled the world on the cheap for a year, worked hard for ten, invested in real estate then left on our first boat to the Carribbean....fast forward and we celebrate our 23rd anniversary by buying our third 42' sloop in the BVI's. We have always gone in and out of the workforce, taken a year or two off here and there... very doable, and have been invigorated by all the different challenges we've faced together.
Just wanted to say that tho we are now a bit slower than we were, we find that life keeps getting better doing something you love with someone you love. So why not hold that standard for yourself now?
Best of luck to you.

I don't aspire to be a boat bum! Lol. But appreciate the backup and vote of confidence. Also, crucially, my life does not revolve around "if I do this will I find a mate? if I do this will I be more/less eligible bachelor" etc. I need to be happy, first, and fulfill my love for living in the most basic sense. Mates may follow, as the cosmos sees fit for me.

Originally Posted by Cadence

Sounds as if it should have gone to Ann Landers. My only advice is consider what the income will be worth years down the line. With inflation what looks good today will probably suck in just a couple of years.

I have carefully calculated my interest income to include a cost of living raise, for myself each year, until age 59. At age 60, my hybrid retirement check from the military is inflation adjusted, as well.

Originally Posted by akprb

This is a great thread and apologies in the delay getting back to you :-) This is my reward for "clearing my desk"!

Yes the pension at age 60 is your trump card! That 4,500/month plus Health Care (3,000/month value?, Our crappy Obama policy which we didn't get (google Medishare for an affordable alternative) was quoted around 2,600/month. Who knows what will be in place by then but whatever it is your access to it at 60 has a monthly value, lets say 2,500. That puts you at 7K per month, at a modest return of say 4% gives that a value of around 2.1M. Gosh I should stayed in the Coast Guard for 20! Good job on that and yes a real asset.

For the 22 years in between I guess you better defined "retirement" and I hear ya. Life changes a lot over the years and sounds like you are the kind of man to roll with it and rise to the challenges. I'm in line with many of the other posters, go and do it. The Net Present Value of those experiences, good and bad, is infinite.

Probably the worst financial decision we ever made (on paper) was leaving with our kids to sail the world. We sold 1/2 of our assets that were paying down at a rapid pace. That being said if we had not done the trip I can safely say I'd likely have ended up a divorced overweight alcoholic with two kids I barely knew or dead (boy that sounds harsh).

Nothing wrong with building a business that people willingly pay you for and growing it to a point where you can enjoy its fruits, the challenge is not making that the end in itself which is sadly what many do and miss the ride.

Enjoy the ride :-)

"The Net Present Value of those experiences, good and bad, is infinite." Well spoken, and thank you for your reply. I also am putting value in "choice" I think. Right now, I have no choice of my next location, assignment, etc. I think the trade of oodles more money than I could possibly need for "choice" in my life is acceptable.

Yes the coverage at age 60 is the trump card. All I have to do is "make it" to that age, financially. Then all is gravy. What a gift right? Hopefully I slide in to age 60 like somebody stealing home plate...in a cloud of dust....nearly broke, having exchanged all my well earned fun-tickets (money) for experiences of elation, learning, expanding my comfort zone, and meeting people and doing good things - with all the mental and physical scars to show for it.

It will, like you, be a "bad financial decision" but in contrast the BEST financial decision I can make is to serve for....hell...19 more years...and then get another high stress high paying job after that. Also, I should probably get a job at night at a factory for even BETTER financial standing...I'll get right on that! Sleeping and relaxing is a poor financial decision. For suckers! I prefer to frame it as "a financial decision that will be made when the value of my life has been exceeded by the amount of money I could make by making myself miserable". So stop sacrificing my health/mental well-being for the money is the best decision at that juncture.



Note:
A few people commented about "well what about in the future, when you want to get married and have children, you can't survive on 2500 a month - you'll need 5 K or more!" First, I was once married and we both were frugal and never lived on more than 2500. Money was not the reason we split. Secondly, If marriage is in the future for me again, methinks it's not going to be with somebody who would look poorly upon the decisions I made, or that wishes they had money instead of my life. Children are not in the picture, unfortunately, due to the nature of my combat injuries.

[Lake-Effect]

Interesting dilemma.

I can't recommend staying with a job or situation you're unhappy with, any longer than necessary. On the other hand, you're still a young man and I still can't imagine not working at something that interests me, even though I'm close to 60.

Mark Zuckerberg (FaceBook) has just announced he'll give away $40+ billion in the next few decades; maybe he could use a security advisor.

In your shoes - I think that if I still wanted out, I would take the semi-retirement in 18 months and reward myself with a year of cruising/travelling, then see how I feel about things. Life is what happens while you're making plans...

Main point is that you're still young enough that you can recover from just about any path you choose.

Thanks for your service, btw. My brother had a military career, and his son is now in.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by ArmySailor

...

I have fulfilled my commitment to this country, yes? If not, how do I determine when I have? When is "enough" enough?

Tell me, what *should* I do? What is my moral obligation at this time?

I have been wanting to post on your question(s) since it was first posted but I have been working too much to answer.

While I think the comments I quoted above, might be tongue in check in response to another post, I have been wondering from the start if these questions were also in play...

I have two parallel careers, one in a Dilbertesque Cubeville, and the other in a position were risk, service, and duty go hand in hand.

We can't go off cruising due to family land anchors and lack of finances that firmly anchor me in Cubeville for a few more years. Ironically, given your OP, staying in Cubeville for another 7-8 years would be the best financial decision but we might be able to leave earlier but the family anchors will almost certainly prevent that early departure. However, if we had our way, we would leave earlier, even though it would mean less long term money.

However, in my second career I can retire. Retiring would free up time for me and would be a rational thing to do on some levels. It removes risk to me personally as well as for my family's financial health but I like the position and the people I work with in spite of the stress and time involvement.

I and other coworkers in my secondary career are talking retirement and one person just did. It is tempting. I have done my duty. I have done what I felt I needed to do. I can retire with honor. But, it is not yet time. There are too many things going on right now where I might be needed, and so for now, I stay. When will it be time? I don't know but I will know when it is time.

Me thinks your first decision is to decide if it is time for you to leave the Army. Will you regret it if you do? You will know if it is time.

If it is time to retire, no if, ands or buts, and since money is well in hand, then it is time to retire. But only you can really answer that question.

Later,
Dan

[Rick923]

AS,

There is another option to help get you to age 60. First continue with with your plan in the Reserve, preferably in a TPU unit, and ensure you get that 20 letter. After you have the letter in hand, you can become a free agent of sorts. Go into the IRR and you can pick-up active duty work when needed via "Tour of Duty" in AKO. TOD has worldwide job announcements for tours up to a year. Also, there are a lot of O1A slots at the O-5/O6 level so you won't have to worry about a branch specific position. Understand that the number of job announcements is dependent on budget and world events. You will not be allowed to go over 18 years of active duty service with this COA at this time. Hope this helps. Rick


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