Trust Yacht Brokers?

[SkiprJohn]

Ok. You might have missed a good deal but there are many more and getting to be cheaper everyday. I'd keep looking at craigslist and you'll come up with another good one soon enough.
If I see something locally I'll let you know via this thread.
kind regards,

[SkiprJohn]

Seen this one?

SAILBOAT CAL30

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by tcul

Thanks all for the replies.

Forgot to ad. When the broker informed me that an offer had been made on the cascade, it hadn't been accepted yet, I immediately informed him I was willing to put in an offer for $500 higher. He declined.

So he screwed the seller out of $500.

It would be unethical for a broker to make such an offer as you described knowing what the other buyer was willing to pay. On the other hand, had you made a legitimate offer instead of an underhanded one, I'm sure the broker would have presented it to the seller.

Chauk this up as part of your boat buying education. We had at least 10 failed attempts when placing offers on each of the two vessels we eventually purchased; it's just part of the game. No need to get bent out of shape.

[tcul]

Skipper John,

That CAL 30 was the other boat they steered me away from, then sold a week later!

Cynic that I am, I figure they sold the Cascade and this Cal to someone that they thought couldn't afford anything more expensive. The Cascade sold for 4k, this Cal 30 for a little more. Pretty cheap. I think they steered me away becuz they thought they could sell me something higher.

Thanks for the help.

It's like buying used cars. Some avoid used car lots like the plague, and will only buy directly from owners.

[tcul]

Kenomac,

I don't know what you mean when you say I made an "underhanded" offer.

It was a boat I had been looking at. A week later, I was informed another buyer put in an offer, not yet accepted by seller. I told them I was willing to put in an offer for an additional $500. How is that "underhanded"? The broker only told me it was an offer for the full price.

[Kenomac]

As in buying a house or a boat, the broker works for the seller unless you have a buyer's agreement with them; so the broker is not at liberty to discuss with you an offer made by another buyer, otherwise he can be sued. He can inform you that another offer has been made, but cannot offer the seller an extra $500 over the other buyers price.

How would you like it if you made a legitimate offer on your next target boat, and then found out the broker placed another buyer's bid in on the same boat knowing the price you offered and added an extra $500?

Some of this behavior does go on however, but it quickly kills bids on other boats the broker has listed when the word gets around to other buyers and brokers. It's a terrible business practice. I had the same thing happen on one of the Tayanas I placed an offer on two years ago. The seller's broker took my offer, then had an insider who was waiting in the wings place a bid for $10,000 more than mine at the same time. The higher bid was accepted. Everything eventually fell apart with that deal and the boat is still for sale today.

What goes around.... comes around, and most reputable brokers know this.

[Richard_W]

Likewise ... looks to me that the broker was doing his job ... selling the boat.

He was kind enough and has not taken an advantage of the eager but confused buyer and not accepting his offer of $500 over whatever the other offer was. This could have been one expensive boat, and a lesson in how not to conduct contract negotiations.

[tcul]

I see the point now about offers.

It seems then, since the broker works for the sell, then the buyer is at a disadvantage unless he brings in a broker to represent him. I don't think there are buyer's brokers in Hawaii for boats.

So a buyer should go to see any boat they list with the same attitude he would have if he was going see a car for sale at a used car lot. That the broker is not looking out for your best interest. They are really not there to put you in the right boat. They are there to put you in the right boat THEY HAPPEN TO HAVE TO SELL. So a buyer should look at every boat, no matter who is selling it.

Which begs the question, why do they come across like they are look out for you as a buyer? The three I've dealt with all want to know "are you working with ANOTHER BROKER? So what the hell does that mean? Are there OTHER brokers working for me? But you and they are NOT working for me. You're working for the seller not me. So why don't you drop the charade.

[Kenomac]

Approach a reputable broker and ask him or her if they will work for you as a buyer's broker, but first you'll need to adjust your attitude towards them if expect any positive results from the encounter.

Your broker doesn't necessarily need to be located in Hawaii to help find you the right boat.

[Richard_W]

So a buyer should go to see any boat they list with the same attitude he would have if he was going see a car for sale at a used car lot. That the broker is not looking out for your best interest. They are really not there to put you in the right boat.

You've got it ...

The three I've dealt with all want to know "are you working with ANOTHER BROKER? So what the hell does that mean?

Did you do your homework? Is anybody else selling you a boat? Are you looking everywhere, left and right? Just trying to profile you and your knowledge of the market.

To be fair ... they might try to match your needs and wants with what they have for sale, but do not expect them to send you to the competition that might have a better match for you.

[tcul]

It's not a matter of positive or negative attitude. I'd say it's more about having a REALISTIC attitude. If they think they can steer you away from a couple of cheaper boats, cars, houses, RVs, you show an interest in, and get you to buy something for $15k rather than $4k, they are likely to do it. They will make more money for themselves and THEIR client. That's not negative or positive, it's reality. It just happened.

How is a broker in CA going to help me find a boat in HI? Are they going to fly to the islands to look at it with me?

I know there are buyer's brokers in Real Estate who nothing but represent buyers. I don't know that the yacht market is big enough for that.

[tcul]

Richard,

I'm trying. But so far just CL and the two major brokers here. What I should do is start buying beers and meeting people at the marinas.

My knowledge is getting better, especially regarding what I really want the boat for. I am a day, perhaps weekend sailor. I like coastal cruising around South Oahu. Sailed a guys Ranger 26 for a couple months. Loved it. Easy to handle and sturdy.

I'm learning that, like a car, serviceability is more important that cosmetics. Don't fall for buying a boat the seller just slapped new gel coat on to make it pretty, but the standing rigging, chain plates and keel bolts will need replacing. Ching ching! Or the keel

[Richard_W]

You can do a lot of landscape scoping from the computer ... there are probably 3-4 sites that cover 80% of stock available, both broker stock and private sales. Just do your searches, save the links and run them weekly. You will see what is available, where, for how much and how the prices change, etc.

But most important ... get your needs and wants on paper. Define for yourself the boat type and brand, size range, price range, and all must haves you want. Once you have your dream boat specs it will be easier for you to stay on track during your searches, online or in person. Share this info with selling brokers, and friendly boater you talk to ... with time you might be getting the calls back with leads.

Good luck ... it always takes a bit of time and effort, but you will find your dream boat.

[lostsheep]

I called a broker about a boat I am interested in,and he steered me away. He said that for a first boat I should look for something that was sailable, not something I had to be working on all the time before I even got to go anywhere.
I see the logic in his advice. To buy a 'fixer-upper', then be disappointed because one spent all their time working on it instead of sailing it would be a bad experience that could sour a new prospective sailor for life.
However, if a person is capable and understands the systems, it may be a good proposition. For example, the boat I'm looking at needs saloon cushion, and berth cushions. I happen to be a part-time upholsterer. I have the machinery and the know-how. So, not a problem. It needs a new stove. I've installed gas water heaters before. Needs a refrigeration unit for the galley, I've installed air conditioners and generator/APU's in trucks. So, for a handyman like me, it probably isn't a bad deal. To a person that has limited mechanical ability, it would be a pass I think.
he asked if I had worked on boats before. No, I haven't worked on boats before, other than making boat covers and upholstery, but I've worked on semi's. Worked on houses. Worked on motorcycles. Worked on cars. Done lots of mechanical stuff.
So, I'm not skeered!!!
But it's like it's been said....
"A man's got to know his limitations."- Harry Callahan

[charliehows]

well ive met some real nice brokers - i'm not being facetious either, ive spent a few days hanging out with some great guys who were running me around showing me boats, helping me out checking into nooks and crannies. My experience is these guys gave me pretty good advice when i asked for it (although, to be honest, they didnt know many answers to most of my serious questions, bit too detailed) - a broker is just the guy who shows you the boat (and takes a pretty serious whack of cash if you decide to buy it), there is a lot of work you gotta do yourself or find someone to help you do to decide whether the boat you're looking at is the one for you. And i have to admit - I've never actually bought a boat through a broker, always dealt with owners direct - well its a 20% saving right there - something like that anyway.