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Old 28-03-2014, 07:16   #166
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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No, I'd like it to go over something submerged at say 5 feet and see how the lower keel and rudder would fair. All bow shots unless I missed something.
You did, see the bit where it hits the rocks , thats the keel hitting

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Old 28-03-2014, 07:19   #167
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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This post has so many unsupported opinions that it is hard to know where to start. And you are entitled to your opinions.

Absolutely agree Jim, If it was the case all those club racers would be full keeled. His view is biased nonsense. I can never understand why proponents of full keels must be " better" then everyone else. I mean those proposing fin keels, are merely saying that these boats are fine to blue water sail. were not trying to dis the long keelers.

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Old 28-03-2014, 08:44   #168
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Absolutely agree Jim, If it was the case all those club racers would be full keeled.
And we all should be commuting with Ferraries
What a wonderful sight at camping places instead of those slow road blocking but ugly motorhomes..
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Old 28-03-2014, 08:47   #169
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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And we all should be commuting with Ferraries
What a wonderful sight at camping places instead of those slow road blocking but ugly motorhomes..


Please not FerrarIs , echo friendly Porsche 918 spyder . 17 miles on those electric motors !!!!

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Old 28-03-2014, 09:05   #170
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

Mpricer, you come to this with much more experience and knowledge than most sailors begin with. You will do just fine. As you can see everyone seems to think the type of boat they have is best. Mine is a 42 ft moderately heavy (30,000 lb) moderately long fin keel (long not deep) internal ballast, with strong sketch hung rudder. I love this boat. What I love most though is the build quality. Everything is first rate, structure, components, rig, everything solid and dependable. And the company is still in business and supports owners. I have great confidence that this boat will take care of us in any conditions we are likely to see and it sails very well too. Yanmar 4JHE motor has been very dependable for over 2000 hrs so far. I like our cutter rig with jib boom for short tacking and for reduced sail conditions. 130 gallons fuel tankage and 150 water. Great comfort above and below decks is a must for long term happiness on the hook and underway, doesn't have to be one or the other.


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Old 28-03-2014, 09:57   #171
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

JimCate, and anyone interested, Let me make myself more clear. In my previous post, I stated very clearly that what I say is “IN MY OPINION”, and that I have “preferences” based on my experience. I, in no way was giving a “definitive condemnation” of fin keeled boats, as you said. The OP had asked for opinions. I have sailed for more fin keeled boats than full keeled boats. FOR CRUISING I prefer the full keel heavy displacement boat.
The cross section measurement of the keel is far more detrimental to speed than the horizontal length of the keel. A submerged 1x6 that is 6’ long has the same wetted surface no matter how you measure it. But, try dragging that board broad side through the water versus dragging it on edge. The full keel has one leading edge. The fin keel has two plus, usually a strut. All of this leading edge will often negate the wetted surface measurement. It is this concept that I was referring to when I used the term “wetted frontal area”.
goboatingnow, (regarding full keeled boats), you say, “If that were the case all club racers would be full keel”. No, that is not what I am implying. All of my references were to fully loaded cruising boats, or very long distance races whereby any boat participating is going to be well loaded down. Most lighter weight, fin keeled boats are faster around the buoys than most full keelers. I know this as well as you. The PHRF ratings indicate this. These ratings are based on “empty boats”. What I am saying is that when that very same fin keeled boat is fully loaded, or over loaded, it will be slower than the boat that was designed heavier in the first place. A small to medium sized boat, when cruising or as a live aboard, can easily be 60 seconds per mile slower than it’s PHRF rating. I, in no way, am “dissing” fin keeled boats.
As stated to the OP: for cruising and/or live-aboarding, I much prefer the full keel heavy displacement boat for boats under about 43 feet.
Thankyou
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Old 28-03-2014, 10:16   #172
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

The man does have a point when it comes to loading down a real light race boat because they do in fact sail like dogs when way down on their lines. I certainly can buy into a heavy displacement boat properly loaded doing better than a real light displacement boat over loaded.
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Old 28-03-2014, 10:32   #173
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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No, I'd like it to go over something submerged at say 5 feet and see how the lower keel and rudder would fair. All bow shots unless I missed something.
Did you watch the whole thing? At the end they run the yacht in to a sea wall. Full speed until the keel hits the rocks...

Composites are tough...
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Old 28-03-2014, 10:33   #174
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

As always a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks Robert sailor for affirming the the loaded boat point made by Oregonian.
These pictures have been used before ... notice the dinghy... this is a cruising boat
I think the light air performance is pretty good.



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Old 28-03-2014, 10:44   #175
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

I posted this question early on in this thread, but don't recall any uptake on it. It's slightly related to the current meander, so here it is again. I'm really interested in hearing from you gurus, b/c I truly don't understand:

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't speed largely a factor of LWL? Assuming the rig is sufficient for the wetted surface and mass (IOW, a properly designed boat), and one is carrying adequate sails, isn't the boat speed for a displacement craft largely determined by waterline length?

I have a full-keel, heavy displacement cruiser. It's theoretical boat speed is around 7 knots. It's not that hard to get her up to that speed. I travel as fast as most other non-planing hulls of similar LWL.

What am i missing?
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Old 28-03-2014, 11:39   #176
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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Did you watch the whole thing? At the end they run the yacht in to a sea wall. Full speed until the keel hits the rocks...

Composites are tough...
I did but I thought it hit the rocks without grounding.

I'd also like to see how it would hit the rocks at an angle instead of straight on, where the forces are evenly distributed.
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Old 28-03-2014, 11:51   #177
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

Click image for larger version

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10 Knots true.

Westsail 43.

Full keel heavy displacement at 32000.

Nothing special for cloth on this. Light air sail does even better.
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Old 28-03-2014, 11:54   #178
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

The newer light weight boats have powerful flat aft sections and that allows them to carry a lot of sail on a reach plus when well off the wind the boats will surf with little effort. Newer boats usually have very long water lines compared to overall length. It is true that a sailboats speed is controlled by the waterline but again the lightweight flyers can overcome the hole they dig by surfing. Some of the racing monohulls are quite a bit faster than the cruising cats.
The advantage that the older displacement hulls have is that they can carry a hell of a load and still perform close to specs while a light weight mono hull is a bit like a cat, it turns into a dog when heavily overloaded loaded.
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Old 28-03-2014, 12:11   #179
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

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The man does have a point when it comes to loading down a real light race boat because they do in fact sail like dogs when way down on their lines. I certainly can buy into a heavy displacement boat properly loaded doing better than a real light displacement boat over loaded.
Depending on what the boat was designed to handle.. Many of the 40 plus foot racers were designed to handle a crew of up around 8 to 10 people at all times... you drop that to a cruising couple of two and you have room for 8 at 200lbs each... that's another 1600 lbs allowed for stores............without changing the designed handling of the boat.

I for one, Do Have, a performance fin keel boat and wouldn't advise anyone new to sailing to buy one of these designs. And why you might ask, it takes a special breed of person, and when the speeds get up around 16 to 18 knots, you better have your bucket of balls with you.
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Old 28-03-2014, 12:21   #180
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Re: A Full Keel Blue Water Cruiser Worthy of Living Aboard

I believe I pointed our early in the discussion that it would eventually devolve into "my boat is better and here's why." They always do. Like I also pointed out, they already voted with their funds.

So at the end of the day, most of these boats will do most of the things you need in a cruising boat. If it gets you from point A to B, it works, but only if you like it enough to take it there. You need to pick the one that meets your priorities, and that you have an affection for. That boat will be yours, and then you can come on here and tell everyone all the advantages of the boat you love.
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