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Old 19-07-2013, 03:48   #1
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SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

Good morning.

My son is planning a short trip to Spain from our home port in France. He has a french boat licence " permis cotiere ". He needs to verify that this is valid on an SSR registered yacht Kelt 7.3 metres.
Some forums say he needs his ICC others say nothing is needed.
Hope someone can clarify this for me before I have to trek along to the customs office.

Many thanks

Jills
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Old 19-07-2013, 04:00   #2
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Re: SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

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Originally Posted by philotes View Post
Hi Jill's.
Applying for an SSR number is done online and you need only provide the details of the yacht. You do not need to provide any sailing certificates to register a small ship. It's very easy to do and usually within 2 weeks you have your laminated copy in the post.
I don't think that was his question. I think he wants to know whether he is allowed to be in charge of an SSR registered boat if all he has is a French qualification.

As far as I know, there is no relationship between the type of registration of the boat and the type of qualification you need. If the French qualification fulfills Spanish rules, you should be ok. But as far as I know, you don't actually need any qualification at all if it's your own boat and it's under 20 meters etc.

Best of all, however, not to rely on our hazy memories, but call up the Spanish authorities and ask them, or ask the port captain where you are.

The RYA also gives excellent guidance in such questions.
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Old 19-07-2013, 04:09   #3
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Re: SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

Many thanks for that.

Will check it out with the capitainerie this afternoon.

Thanks again
Jills
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Old 19-07-2013, 04:45   #4
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Re: SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

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As far as I know, there is no relationship between the type of registration of the boat and the type of qualification you need.
It depends. If your yacht is Swiss registered you need a Swiss Off Shore Sailing Permit (yes really). Which is one reason why I won't be registering a boat here were I live.

I thought btw that basically it's the flag state that sets the rules. So Portugal can't require an ICC for British flagged vessels, and I thought a country couldn't even require it from a foreign national.
Personally I even chartered yachts in Croatia without showing a license. All I had was a letter from the Belgian department of transportation stating that since Belgium did not have any formal sailing licenses a Belgian citizen couldn't be expected to have one...
That was sufficient to rent yachts without having any formal qualifications.
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Old 19-07-2013, 05:01   #5
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Re: SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

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Portugal is tightening up as is most of Europe and soon they will all be asking for ICC.
no evidence of that at all , many EU countries arnt even signatories to the UN res 40. (ICC recognition)

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I thought btw that basically it's the flag state that sets the rules. So Portugal can't require an ICC for British flagged vessels, and I thought a country couldn't even require it from a foreign national
Only by the rules of comity, A national state can set any rules it likes in its territorial waters, Ireland for example requres ALL yachts to obey its lifejacket rules, France applies its safety regulations to all yachts, of course enforcement is very patchy.

Croatia , does require certification, your experience was incorrect in relation to the law. Croatia requires a competency cert irrespective of whether your flag state has mandatory certification or not, so for such countries RYA or ICC certs suffice.

dave

in relation to the OP, firstly certification is attached to the sailor, not teh boat, if teh OP has a permis cotiere, it will suffice , Portugals authorities "sometimes" seek ICCs but infact there is no legislation in Portugal that actually backs that request. Portugal is actually not a signatory to UN resolution 40 ( becuase to do would undermine its own more extensive licensing system), hence in law it doesnt even recognise ICCs!

Go sailing , stop worrying

dave
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Old 19-07-2013, 05:15   #6
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Re: SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

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I live in Portugal, on my boat and have been boarded........
SO , I have too, and Ive sailed all over portugal, in yachts of several flags, whats your point, outside of an accident I know of no sailor prosecuted for not having competency certs, and teh OP at least has teh permis.

Portugal in law does not require anything more then your flag country requires, ie it abides by comity, of course individual habour authorities are teh problem as some feel they are a law unto themselves.
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Old 19-07-2013, 05:18   #7
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Re: SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Croatia , does require certification, your experience was incorrect in relation to the law. Croatia requires a competency cert irrespective of whether your flag state has mandatory certification or not, so for such countries RYA or ICC certs suffice.
The first time I did a bareboat in Croatia was in 2003. At that time it was not possible for me to obtain an ICC (or any other formal boating certificate). I had booked the charter through a Belgian agent and he gave me this "letter" which I just had to show to the port captain in Croatia. I did so, and was all right. Last time I chartered in Croatia was 2011, and the letter was still accepted then.
Belgium has now started to hand out ICCs last year. After signing a declaration I know how to operate a sailboat I now have one good for power and sail in coastal waters. I assume that indeed this will make things easier.
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Old 19-07-2013, 05:22   #8
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Re: SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
The first time I did a bareboat in Croatia was in 2003. At that time it was not possible for me to obtain an ICC (or any other formal boating certificate). I had booked the charter through a Belgian agent and he gave me this "letter" which I just had to show to the port captain in Croatia. I did so, and was all right. Last time I chartered in Croatia was 2011, and the letter was still accepted then.
Belgium has now started to hand out ICCs last year. After signing a declaration I know how to operate a sailboat I now have one good for power and sail in coastal waters. I assume that indeed this will make things easier.
what you experienced was teh use of local authority to turn a blind eye and was quite common , less so as teh rules have been better enforced and more countries issue ICCs, and teh Uk and ireland can also issue them to US nationals ( and any others that dont have national issueing of ICCs)

Note croatia doesnt require ICCs, its accepts a huge range of leisure certs ( ASA, RYA, etc etc)


personally at this stage everyone should just standarise of the ICC and be done with it, at least we all know where we stood.

( Boatman might fail though hmmm....)
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Old 22-07-2013, 04:24   #9
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Re: SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

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personally at this stage everyone should just standarise of the ICC and be done with it, at least we all know where we stood.
I agree on that. Which is why I got an ICC. But boating licenses are a bit of muddy water still. When I moved to Switzerland I was in the situation I could sail more or less wherever I wanted. Except in Switzerland. So I had to get a Swiss license just to be able to sail here.
When Belgium finally started to issue ICCs I got one. But when I rented a boat for a day in Sydney they weren't interested in seeing it...
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Old 22-07-2013, 04:32   #10
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Re: SSR registered boat in Spanish waters

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and teh Uk and ireland can also issue them to US nationals ( and any others that dont have national issueing of ICCs)
It's a bit more complex. The UK can issue ICCs to citizens of countries that are not member of the UNECE (and to the US and Canada, which are in the UNECE through some accident of history). So at a time when Belgium was not yet issuing ICCs I could not get one from the UK (nor could I get one from the Netherlands, which is another avenue I tried...)
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