Motor Sailing Display

[Imprezza72]

Like the anchor ball, of course, displayed at anchor, the USCG also mandates a black conical shape with the apex pointing down, to be displayed on vessels 40 ft and greater while motor sailing. I have never heard of one, never mind seen one before. Is it enforced? Or is it an old publication I was reading.

Just Curious....

Sailing Vessels Under Power

During the day, vessels under sail that

are also being propelled by machinery,

must exhibit forward, where it can best

be seen, a black conical shape with the

apex pointing down (See Figure 10 )

[sparrowhawk1]

It's a coloregs rule. I could look in my copy to tell you exactly which one, but I've never seen it enforced

[Cheechako]

I saw it at least once on a commercial vessel. But it's rare.

[ranger58sb]

25(e).

Same for Int'l and US Inland, except in the latter, not required for vessels under 12m.

-Chris

[sparrowhawk1]

That's colregs. Damn spell check

[Ex-Calif]

I chartered a boat that had a ball rigged up to a halyard on the spreader. Spent 3 days trying to untie the knot used to secure it "down" so I could hoist it.

Never seen a charter boat with an cone on board.

If some over-exuberant newbie harbor patrolman wants to give me a ticket? Price of life, I guess...

We travel to Indonesia and Malaysia a bit. I didn't in the past but do now display country and Q flags appropriately - not many recreational skippers do though. no one seems to get too excited about flags, signals and hoists I guess.

[markpierce]

It's exceedingly rare (never seen one myself) compared to the rare recreational use of the anchor ball. A professional anchored in a designated "general anchorage" with anchor ball displayed:

[markpierce]

The only time I've seen a private craft display the anchor ball was in Panama. Most likely, the boat was run by professionals.

[Jim Cate]

Well, Mark, we have routinely displayed the anchor ball for some years now, but do not display (or even own) the motorsailing cone. I have never seen a recreational vessel with that symbol displayed in any of the many countries and regions that we have sailed in.

We are slightly over the 12 meter length, so could be cited, I guess... but I doubt if any of the water cops have heard about that revenue stream! Meanwhile, I have better things to worry about!

Cheers,

Jim

[carstenb]

The rule is 25 (e):

(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.


We had this discussion recently on another thread. Apparently, almost no americans have ever seen, much less own or use, one.

Certainly in europe, you will find them in use. Germany and Sweden in particular. And both German and Swedish coast guards can be sticky about this. They will fine you.

I have one and I normally fly it if I'm motoring along with a sail up.

The rule says it should be exhibited forward. I can't do this easily on my boat so I fly it from the starboard spreader.

Regarding anchor balls - I shamelessly admit I fly it when I anchor.

But then, I'm a nerd when it comes to things like this

[Jim Cate]

Carsten, I must admit curiosity: how do the policing agents know that you have your propeller engaged when they fine you? Seems a bit hard to prove in many cases... engine running but not driving the boat, thus you are not being propelled by machinery... just charging my batteries, officer!

Sure, if it is a dead calm one can suspect engagement if the boat is moving. but much of the time it would be a hard call.

Just wondering...

Jim

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Carsten, I must admit curiosity: how do the policing agents know that you have your propeller engaged when they fine you? Seems a bit hard to prove in many cases... engine running but not driving the boat, thus you are not being propelled by machinery... just charging my batteries, officer!

Sure, if it is a dead calm one can suspect engagement if the boat is moving. but much of the time it would be a hard call.

Just wondering...

Jim

Jim

Of course you are correct. Every case would be subject to discussion. But if you're stopped, then they have all the excuses in the world to continue looking for violations e.g. balck water tanks, PFDs, etc etc etc.

I haven't met the man personally, but one poor boater was fined by the swedish coast guard for sailing in swedish waters without flying Danish flag (as required unless you are participating in a race). I heard he was particularly obnoxious to the coast guard (a little politness goes a loong way when confronting authorities).

Like it or not - it is a rule and they can enforce it at their discretion.

I should note here that I have never had any run-ins or incidents with any coast guard.

[blewett_john]

Originally Posted by carstenb

The rule is 25 (e):

(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.


We had this discussion recently on another thread. Apparently, almost no americans have ever seen, much less own or use, one.

Certainly in europe, you will find them in use. Germany and Sweden in particular. And both German and Swedish coast guards can be sticky about this. They will fine you.

I have one and I normally fly it if I'm motoring along with a sail up.

The rule says it should be exhibited forward. I can't do this easily on my boat so I fly it from the starboard spreader.

Regarding anchor balls - I shamelessly admit I fly it when I anchor.

But then, I'm a nerd when it comes to things like this

I too use both the ball and the cone when I am traveling in the ICW. I don't use it locally where I sail though but my boat has been in the boatyard almost two years getting a rebuild. Maybe this year I will get to use my anchor ball in some quiet cove.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Carsten, I must admit curiosity: how do the policing agents know that you have your propeller engaged when they fine you? Seems a bit hard to prove in many cases... engine running but not driving the boat, thus you are not being propelled by machinery... just charging my batteries, officer!

Sure, if it is a dead calm one can suspect engagement if the boat is moving. but much of the time it would be a hard call.

Just wondering...

Jim

It is often possible to tell for sure that you're motor sailing. Water coming out the exhaust, speed not possible under sail in those conditions, or sails not drawing.

As Carsten said, it's enforced in Germany and Netherlands at least.

I use my motoring cone most of the time, even in the UK (where there seems to be no enforcement) just because it shows consideration to other people on the sea -- they know that you will not be standing-on in cases where they might otherwise need to give way to a sailing vessel. If I don't use it, it's just because there's no other traffic around.

It's just plain courtesy, and besides that reduces confusion. If I'm the give-way vessel, then I want to maneuver and don't want the other vessel to be confused and maneuver at the same time, screwing up my solution.

I always use my anchoring ball when anchored in daylight. I do not want somebody to sail into me and then say that they thought I was under way and avoiding them. In the U.S., I would even be worried about liability. I am really surprised that so many of you guys don't use anchor balls. In Europe they seem to be pretty much universally used, even where's there's no enforcement. Mine is always at the ready at the base of my mast, already rigged to my port side flag halyard. I change it for the motoring cone when necessary.

[carstenb]

There seems to be a laisse-faire attitude towards daytime signals in the US. Considering what we hear (on CF) about the zealousness of enforcement re: PFD's and safety inspections - I'm surprised at law enforcement's apparent nonchalant attitude.