Is an ICC Necessary for UK - Canaries - Jamaica?

[circumnavbute]

been thinking about the question! no you don't need a icc for that trip. Uk is ok.spain and portugal should be glad of the money if u go ashore and then jamaica is ? well jamaica NO! she went of her own accord.

[goboatingnow]

I suggest that for a cruise of Portugal you should have some form of basic competency cert.

pS what's with the nonsense that just because you as a cruiser might spend a few bob that suddenly rules will be overlooked. Yacht based spending would be minuscule on Portugals tourism radar.

Dave

[circumnavbute]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I suggest that for a cruise of Portugal you should have some form of basic competency cert.

pS what's with the nonsense that just because you as a cruiser might spend a few bob that suddenly rules will be overlooked. Yacht based spending would be minuscule on Portugals tourism radar.

Dave

just a bit of skittish humour Dave!!!! I hope that anyone setting off to jamaica via the Iberian peninsula then on via the canaries then across the pond to Jamaica would have a sense of humour to help them with the long days and all the paperwork. But I still maintain that you do not strictly need an Icc for such a trip if you are a uk flagged vessel. I do realise that it may be desirable and perhaps easier in a practical sense (just in case you detour to Bosnia) to have some paperwork to show you can tell port from starboard. Insurance without some form of recognized qualification may be hard to find as well. that would make life even harder? I know some people just love to spend time and effort getting another bit of paper or letters after their name. A lot of people like myself do not. I like the sea, It is just about the last bit of the world that with the exeption of Territorial waters that is still free to explore.I do however have the odd bit of paper with my name on it just to make sure I am legal. regards john.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by circumnavbute

just a bit of skittish humour Dave!!!! I hope that anyone setting off to jamaica via the Iberian peninsula then on via the canaries then across the pond to Jamaica would have a sense of humour to help them with the long days and all the paperwork. But I still maintain that you do not strictly need an Icc for such a trip if you are a uk flagged vessel. I do realise that it may be desirable and perhaps easier in a practical sense (just in case you detour to Bosnia) to have some paperwork to show you can tell port from starboard. Insurance without some form of recognized qualification may be hard to find as well. that would make life even harder? I know some people just love to spend time and effort getting another bit of paper or letters after their name. A lot of people like myself do not. I like the sea, It is just about the last bit of the world that with the exeption of Territorial waters that is still free to explore.I do however have the odd bit of paper with my name on it just to make sure I am legal. regards john.

What's at sea to explore ?

[Dockhead]

It's ironic, but the UK, home of the RYA, the gold standard of sailing instruction and qualifications, requires not one scrap of any kind of paper from anyone, to go to sea, no license, not even registration of your vessel. There are also no taxes on boats (other than VAT when you first buy her). As if Englishmen have some kind of inalienable right to go to sea. What a great country

If you are stopped in UK waters, the only paper anyone will be interested in is your passport.

[justwaiting]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's ironic, but the UK, home of the RYA, the gold standard of sailing instruction and qualifications, requires not one scrap of any kind of paper from anyone, to go to sea, no license, not even registration of your vessel. There are also no taxes on boats (other than VAT when you first buy her). As if Englishmen have some kind of inalienable right to go to sea. What a great country

If you are stopped in UK waters, the only paper anyone will be interested in is your passport.

Not ironical, traditional. lol
England rules the waves, and waives the rules.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's ironic, but the UK, home of the RYA, the gold standard of sailing instruction and qualifications, requires not one scrap of any kind of paper from anyone, to go to sea, no license, not even registration of your vessel. There are also no taxes on boats (other than VAT when you first buy her). As if Englishmen have some kind of inalienable right to go to sea. What a great country

If you are stopped in UK waters, the only paper anyone will be interested in is your passport.

Of course SOLAS V rules apply as do MCA if the yacht is commercial, then you need a ships radio license and a licensed VHF operator Not to mention being harassed by the border agency and the fact that you can't sail abroad with red diesel.

But sure of course there are no rules !!

[circumnavbute]

Ok, Goboatingnow is wrong about the Red deisel. You can go abroad with red deisel. It is advised that only your main tank should contain it. no cans of the stuff. You should keep your receipts to show that you have paid tax on it in the uk though. Anyway, think ! how would you get the dye out of your tank to put Derv in without some degree of pinkness ?

[circumnavbute]

I think Goboatingnow and I should go cruising together???? Imagine the effect on Global warming???????

[carstenb]

The legal lowdown on this is: Any country anywhere can ask to see your VHF (or other) radio operators license. They cannot ask you take any test, if you have one.

ICC? Legally, it "follow the flag" rules. meaning if you don't need a license or other competency paper in your home country, then you don't need it anywhere (inland waterways excepted because they have different signals there).

Having sail all that - if a customs or harbour officer gets antsy and asks for one - you can argue (you'll lose) or you can show you have one.

Johnny - unless you have been sailing since birth and therefore are a completely skilled yachtsman, I would advise you take a few courses on ocean sailing before setting out. You might just save you own life. Were I crewing for you, I would feel more comfortable if you had.

[johnandtessa]

We went through the same questions this spring prior to our Atlantic crossing. From Annapolis anyway, it was hard to get clear info on the ICC requirements and the Brits I spoke to tended to give differing info. So, we bagged it and after 3 months of dozens of marinas in Azores, Portugal and Spain, we have yet to be asked for the ICC or any similar proof of competence. But, boat documentation and proof of insurance is requested by all. We have not gone east of Spain yet (Turkey final destination) but so far no need for the ICC.
John - Tenho

[carstenb]

Johnny and Gus, Aside from the above, I just reread your first posts where you note that you will learn how to sail from a friend in the north sea.

I am a yachtmaster ocean. I would be happy to give friends boating lessons (and I do sometimes), but if any of them decided to do some serious ocean sailing, I would strongly recommend that they get a real sailing education. Ocean sailing is not only about "learning to sail" There are a number of other issues, stability, loading, meteorology, navigation (yes even a sextant), not to mention heavy weather sailing, anchoring etc etc etc.

To answer your first post - no Yachtmaster courses are not just for poshy yachty types who hang around the clubs. They are for serious sailors who have healthy respect for the sea and who realize they do not know it all.

you might want to think about that - ocean sailing is not for newbies

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by circumnavbute

Ok, Goboatingnow is wrong about the Red deisel. You can go abroad with red deisel. It is advised that only your main tank should contain it. no cans of the stuff. You should keep your receipts to show that you have paid tax on it in the uk though. Anyway, think ! how would you get the dye out of your tank to put Derv in without some degree of pinkness ?

"
RYA advice to boaters following the announcement by HMRC on 21 February 2012. The Ministerial statement indicated that, from 1 April 2012, the use of marked red diesel to propel private pleasure craft will be allowed only within UK territorial waters.
"

"
As far as the RYA is aware, Belgium is the only country in which fines may be imposed on UK boaters (and indeed Belgian boaters) for the mere presence of marked red diesel in their yachts’ fuel tanks.
"

Because of threatened legal action by the Commission, against the UK, the situation regarding Red Diesel has changed. You are now only protected inside UK national waters, If you go abroad with Red Diesel, you may be subject to significant fines.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by carstenb

The legal lowdown on this is: Any country anywhere can ask to see your VHF (or other) radio operators license. They cannot ask you take any test, if you have one.

ICC? Legally, it "follow the flag" rules. meaning if you don't need a license or other competency paper in your home country, then you don't need it anywhere (inland waterways excepted because they have different signals there).


.....

This is factually wrong and is not for example the case in Croatia, While countries follow the rules of Comity, they dont have to. Croatia imposes a specific requirement that UK nationals must have some form of competency cert to sail in their waters,They accept a long list of certificates, including ICC, and most RYA certs.

Fundementally and Ive said it many times. Your boat does not afford you "diplomatic immunity". You are while within territorial waters ( and not on innocent passage , see the definition) , you are subject to whateverlaws and regulations such countries may decide to apply.

This is as much true in france, which enforces its leisure craft safety regulations on all leisure vessels within its national waters as it sis in Croatia.

The Uk rules or lack of them does not apply once you sail over the horizon

Dave

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Of course SOLAS V rules apply as do MCA if the yacht is commercial, then you need a ships radio license and a licensed VHF operator Not to mention being harassed by the border agency and the fact that you can't sail abroad with red diesel.

But sure of course there are no rules !!

Naturally, if the yacht is commercial, it's a different ballgame. We were talking about pleasure yachts.

But I do stand corrected about the VHF license -- I forgot about that. Yes, you have to have a ship's station license (free and 5 minutes online from Ofcom) and an operator's license (not free, and you have to take a test), for your VHF, even on a pleasure yacht.

But what is cool, and amazing for Amurricans like me, is that you don't have to register your pleasure yacht, and don't pay a single pence in taxes (other than VAT on acquisition). How cool is that?!