Has anyone actually sailed with firearms

[doug86]

or, even more interesting questions would be:

Has anyone actually fired a gun from their boat in self defense?

- If so, provide some details.

Has anyone actually pointed a loaded gun at another person in self defense of their boat? Why?

... inquiring minds ....

[AllezCat]

Another important consideration is the disparity between American States.
While you can purchase assault rifles over-the-counter in Texas, transport them into New York, and its a trip to Riker's (non-third world) luxury prison.

A gun-store person in North Carolina told me a story yesterday.
A mega-millions client with a mega-yacht was "having trouble with pirates".
So he purchased a M60 machine gun.
this is a real military fully automatic belt fed machine gun - .308 caliber.
he showed me a video of them test firing it at the range.
Installed on fly-bridge of mega-yacht, and apparently used to sink a vessel.

I do not know how much is true, except the video I saw.

Only need a class 3 license to buy (and 60k)...

[Pyrate]

I haven't been too far from home, but in Alaska, just about every boat has a firearm. It's due to large halibut, hunting, and bear defense while on shore. I have been in Canada, and for a rifle, it's not hard to declare it, pay a fee, and go on your merry way, as long as you've never been convicted of a felony (or what constitutes a felony in Canada). They don't allow handguns, though. I'd imagine (my opinion here) that a bit of pre planning which countries to stop in, which ones to avoid, etc. such as you seem to be doing, will make it relatively easy to have a good passage with firearms.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by Therapy

That is good info.

Thanks. I guess we only hear about all the bad officials and stuff.

I am also very sad to hear that the American officials are not good. Very sad indeed.

They are professional if a little uptight and bureaucratic. I am a business traveler that has visited most major countries in the world. The only two countries that gave me a hassle in customs & immigration were the US, and a third world communist dictatorship. (the communist official allowed me to bribe out).

Back on thread, as a US citizen of a state that freely allows private gun ownership, in a country that has ownership of private guns written into it's constitution. I still have to check carefully the laws of each state I visit. I can only imagine the hassles of international transport. In the highly developed countries it would be best to contact that country and find out there laws and procedures. (if diverted the safest thing to do is what the above captain did, chuck em if there is any chance of getting caught in a country they are illegal). In lawless areas, (were the gun is most likely to be needed), they are most likely illegal, but if those laws were enforced you wouldn't be dealing with pirates and theives in the first place.

As far as all guns are equally bad, not true in all countries. A brightly painted shotgun loaded with flares in a signal locker will be legal in more countries than a handgun. Again you would have to ask the country you are visiting to be certain.

[goboatingnow]

As far as all guns are equally bad, not true in all countries. A brightly painted shotgun loaded with flares in a signal locker will be legal in more countries than a handgun. Again you would have to ask the country you are visiting to be certain.

The practicalities are that most countries require them to be declared and handed in for safe keeping , then retrieved on departure. This of course (a) forces you to return to the check in point, (b) removes the thing you thought you needed in the first place and (c) If the firearm is considered illegal in that country, it wil be most likely confiscated.

Theres enough feedback around the web to back this up.

Dave

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by bigpuff

I personly are against having guns on boats,saying this i had a scary moment coming into a port once.Very low tide and bumped on the bottem(tide rising)herd a n0ck down below,a quick look and there on the saloon floor was a cut down shot-gun;It had been in a hidden panel that had somehow opened up whrn we touched bottem.the yacht had been owned by a church group befor me(god bless)

That belongs here


http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...oat-21236.html

Or here

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...at-6146-5.html

[muskoka]

This topic has been done to death.

However, we've had lots of visiting yachties here in Hong Kong including the ill fated Quest. I've always asked the US yachties whether they carry a gun and they've all said no. Though, I'm not naive enough to imagine that one or two haven't decided to be economical with the truth.

That being said, I know lots of yachties who've cruised from Hong Kong into the dark dangerous waters of the South China Sea whom I know didn't carry a gun. But, that's a negative proof which doesn't answer how many visiting boats may have had a gun secreted away somewhere aboard.

So, I can only answer that most yachties sailing the South China Sea don't seem to have a gun. And I've not heard of anyone using a gun to defend themselves - which, if that happened, would travel around this small yachting community like wildfire.

I suppose if that's what makes you feel safe then go ahead. Just make absolutely sure that the policies of the countries you wish to visit allow some procedure for bringing in firearms. In some countries the penalties for firearms are draconian: So you've gotta be legal or you're in deep ****.

[ProtectTheOcean]

In my travels, I've largely avoided bringing firearms. It's a hassle, but more importantly, looking back on it all, even at times when I was in danger, not having the firearm just brought me to be more innovative, to find other solutions. More importantly, there were times when, if I had been discovered with a firearm, a situation I was able to defuse would most certainly have escalated, and I might not be joining in on this discussion if that had been the case.

I ruled out going through the Red Sea because of the pirates in last night's prep for a possible journey. Thing is, I'd have ruled it out with or without a firearm or five.

Two thoughts come to mind:

1) rather than ditching them in DJ's locker, maybe put them in ziplock bags and/or grease, and drop them over with a line and some sort of retrieval opportunity in less gun-friendly places?
2) Someone mentioned flairs. Seems that would be a capable weapon -- especially if every other one were a slug or shotgun shell. If one can pass a shotgun off as a flair gun, hiding the ammo shouldn't be quite so difficult? Thoughts on that one?

[goboatingnow]

thinking that any form of shotgun could be confused for a flare gun is really silly, equally in many countries flare guns are regarded as firearms.

Dave

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by ProtectTheOcean

Two thoughts come to mind:

1) rather than ditching them in DJ's locker, maybe put them in ziplock bags and/or grease, and drop them over with a line and some sort of retrieval opportunity in less gun-friendly places?
2) Someone mentioned flairs. Seems that would be a capable weapon -- especially if every other one were a slug or shotgun shell. If one can pass a shotgun off as a flair gun, hiding the ammo shouldn't be quite so difficult? Thoughts on that one?

Regarding 1: That's a smuggling trick dating back to the 18th century. Seriously, the people enforcing borders in 3rd world countries know that old chestnut because they deal with it every day. And they would be tickled to bust a dumb foreigner who thought they were that stupid. Borders aren't enforced by swarthy, mustachioed parodies of policemen - some of them are pretty damned smart. That is a fact of life.

Regarding 2: Many countries consider flare guns to be firearms. And per item 1, they aren't stupid. And you are screwed if you think they're stupid and try to pull a fast one with drugs or firearms. Your embassy won't and can't help you. If you break the law in a 3rd world country you aren't special.

If you wish do do this, make absolutely sure you're legal.

[hummingway]

Ok, that's enough of that. Please stick to the topoic at hand. Thanks.

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Which countries do we throw the flare guns overboard before we enter.

Surly cruisers don't cruise without flare guns as they can be required.

Well, oddly enough, the onus is upon you to figure out what is legal at any port of entry you decide to visit. If you're not sure then you shouldn't be making for that particular port, or you should jettison questionable items prior to entry.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Which countries do we throw the flare guns overboard before we enter.

Surly cruisers don't cruise without flare guns as they can be required.

The UK classifies flareguns as firearms and requires them to be licensed

hand held self contained Flares rather then flareguns are generally allowed.


Dave

[John A]

In Trinidad you may own a flare gun. But the only way to buy one is with a Police permit and do a special order thru Customs.
Natural born citizens may own, carry, and display firearms, everyone else cannot. This is the law in most every country.

[ProtectTheOcean]

Originally Posted by John A

In Trinidad you may own a flare gun. But the only way to buy one is with a Police permit and do a special order thru Customs.
Natural born citizens may own, carry, and display firearms, everyone else cannot. This is the law in most every country.

John, are you saying that if one arrives in Trinidad with a flare gun on his vessel, that safety device is contraband?