Can I Be Stopped in International Waters ?

[feelsgood]

Sounds like the good old USA waving the big stick and telling everybody they have the right because they have the might. Well under international law NO BODy can board your vessel without your given permision. That encludes USCG any Navy or police force. If they do try to they are commiting an act of piracy. In Jersey in the British Channel Islands a chap murdered his parents and excaped to sea. He was found in the middle of the Atlantic by the British Navy who had a policeman aboard. As later transpired the policeman asked if he would come aboard the Navy vessel which he did and as soon as he set foot onboard it he was legaly on british soil so to speak and the policeman could arrest him. He was later told both by his legal councle and the Judge thet had he not boarded the navy boat he could not have been arrested while in international waters. While sailing in the med we were asked questions from a USA warship about where we had been and where we were going ,what we had aboard ,how many and so forth. I answered all their questions and was then told that they would send a team to board us. I replyed that we were in international waters and would not be borded unless they could satisfy me that they had probable cause to do so. They pressed the point so put out a call to the nearest vessel which happened to be a Spanish customs launch and they told the Americans that they had no right to board us. so they left us alone. The Spanish boat approached us and asked us if we wanted to be escorted into a safe port which we accepted and on arrival were left ALONE.

[Dave the Canuck]

Originally Posted by Chief Engineer

This is more fun than "How many guns should a monohull carry versus a multihull?"

Also ask which anchor they should use and it'd be a winner.

[sailstoo]

If I was doing something like I think you are contemplating doing I would start off by NOT ASKING QUESTIONS LIKE THIS ON A PUBLIC FORUM!

[AK_sailor]

Originally Posted by feelsgood

.... under international law NO BODy can board your vessel without your given permision. That encludes USCG any Navy or police force. ......

So I guess that applies to pirates as well? So long as the Navy doesn't actually catch them in the act of attacking a yacht, then they should be free to go their merry way? If a Somali customs launch escorts pirates back to port, then no navy should intervene?

One of the contradictions of this and several other similar threads is that yachty types on the one hand want their vessels to be absolutely sacrosanct, yet they also want protection from pirates, druggies, and other thugs. I've seen numerous posts on various threads where people seem to want pirates blown out of the water on sight. Trouble is, how do we tell the pirates and thugs from the good guys? I rather doubt the bad guys fly the Jolly Roger these days. How would you define "probable cause"?

I'm not suggesting that you looked like a pirate or should have been hassled by the Navy. If I had been stopped like you, I would probably be just as pissed as you are. However, it is well to remember that these things are a lot more complicated than many people wish to admit.

Also, I'm just curious, do you think the chap who murdered his parents should have gone free?

[wolfenzee]

I would like to reitorate that my complaint is not with the USCG persay but with how the Fatherland security chooses to control the population both land and sea. I have a very hig respect for the CG which is one of the reason the actions of Homeland Security upset me so.

[Brent Swain]

Reminds me of the story in ther 1800's when a wellington cop boarded a sailing ship to catch a rowdy sailor. Whuile the skipper was argueing with the cop the crew was untieing her, and by the time the cop realized what was happening, he was on his way to Cape Horn. Weeks later they put the very green and seasick cop on a new Zealand bound clipper . When the ship was back in Wellington the Scottish skipper was put on trial . He was tried by a Scots judge and a Scots jury and got off scot free.
Trailing a length of halyard wire behind your boat, pointing your stern at any threat, and waving from side to side to maximise the area covered, stops most pirates when they pick the wire up in their prop ,including Governmenrt pirates.
Big tuna hooks hanging over the side do the trick to inflatables as well.
If the US Coastguard had followed the example of the Canadian Coast Guard and refused to take on big brother duties , but stuck to search and rescue, they would have nothing but universal repect and admiration from the public.

[Chief Engineer]

Originally Posted by feelsgood

Sounds like the good old USA waving the big stick and telling everybody they have the right because they have the might. Well under international law NO BODy can board your vessel without your given permision. That encludes USCG any Navy or police force.

Just curious here....how close were you to the US Naval Vessel?

Oh as an aside, don't try that international law stuff in the Chesapeake, the law is a tad different here.

[wolfenzee]

It is my personal opinion that the USCG is the only part of the US military that earns it's keep, but to get adequate funding they have had to sell their soul to Homeland Security

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by feelsgood

Well under international law NO BODy can board your vessel without your given permision. That encludes USCG any Navy or police force. If they do try to they are commiting an act of piracy. In Jersey in the British Channel Islands a chap murdered his parents and excaped to sea. He was found in the middle of the Atlantic by the British Navy who had a policeman aboard.

I suggest you revisit UNCLOS (http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm). On the high seas, all vessels fall under the jurisdiction of their flag state. Vessels without a flag fall under the jurisdiction of all naval vessels. In certain situations (see art. 110), vessels of any flag can be boarded and searched by any naval vessel; but they can be compensated for losses incurred if the search is unfounded.

British subjects are subject to British laws anywhere in the world. Being on the high seas would provide no immunity - he would only be safe from arrest by British authorities in another country or its territorial waters.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

It is my personal opinion that the USCG is the only part of the US military that earns it's keep, but to get adequate funding they have had to sell their soul to Homeland Security

A little behind the times there - - The USCG is a part of the Department of Homeland Security. You "can't sell your soul" to the entity that owns you.
United States Coast Guard - Home Page Notice the fine print under the logo . . .
- - But back to the OP question - International law and even national/local law is more a matter of how much resources you have and are willing to spend to defend yourself against the "800 pound gorilla" of a national government. Reality is they can stop you when and where they want to as they have the "big guns". Sure it may be "illegal" but many, many countries around the world have signed agreements allowing each others "defense forces" to operate in each others "areas of interest".
- - If you have nothing remotely illegal on board then you are merely inconvienced by a boarding. If the sea state and conditions are even remotely unsafe in your honest opinion they will not board unless you give them probable cause. In bad conditions I invite them to follow me to the next port of convenience and come on aboard for some soft drinks or ice tea while they "do their thing." That usually softens their attitude and they head off looking for somebody else. One time they did follow me in and we had a good chat while they did their thing and awarded me a "yellow sheet" good for a year of avoiding further boardings.
- - I also have heard of other nation's coastal defense forces getting rather pissy about USCG trying to "horn in" on their territories and telling the USCG to get out of their waters. But those instances are rare but fun to hear about.

[Chief Engineer]

I have always found that a bottle of water or a sports drink is well received.

Just curious here....how close WERE you to the US Naval Vessel?

[Van]

To the best of my knowledge the the US has signed up to but never ratified the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. I believe that this is a carry over from when the Royal Navy was the worlds largest navy and Britian laid claim to (by its own laws) all the worlds oceans. The Royal Navy was then, as the US Navy now considers its self, the worlds maritime police. Put simply this means that the US does as it pleases at sea regardless of international law and they will board you in international water if they feel they have cause to.
My experience of meeting the US Navy in international waters has always been of being told in no uncertain terms to stay at least 1.5nm away from them.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Van

My experience of meeting the US Navy in international waters has always been of being told in no uncertain terms to stay at least 1.5nm away from them.

Maybe because, the longest confirmed recorded kill by a military sniper is 2430m (about 1.5 miles), set during Operation Anaconda (Afghanistan, 2002) by a Canadian soldier, Rob Furlong. The previous record was indeed set in Vietnam, 1962, by Carlos Hathcock at a distance of 2286m (about 1.4 miles).

[Brent Swain]

Good reaason to get Cook Island registry. Not much chance of getting boarded by the Cook Island Navy.( nor the Canadian Navy , outside of Canada. I've never heard of it happening.) Does not having a registered boat make you imune form such boardings
If my Canadian built boat has Cook Island registry, does that limit how long I can keep her in Canadian waters , being Canadian built?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

... The previous record was indeed set in Vietnam, 1962, by Carlos Hathcock at a distance of 2286m (about 1.4 miles).

FWIW:
Record(s) for the longest confirmed sniper kill in combat:
Rob Furlong: 2,430 m (2,657 yd), 2005
Brian Kremer: 2,340 m (2,560 yd), 2004
Arron Perry: 2,310 m (2,526 yd), 2005
Carlos Hathcock: 2,286 m (2,500 yd), 1967