Best Place to Get a Sailing Yacht Registered ?

[feelsgood]

Ha!ha! Ha! I just love it. At last I know why I like being old and old things. My Yacht 32 years old me 63 years old and retired some body else paid the vat on my yacht and I dont pay any taxes. Pretty Good in my book.

[Jups]

but you cannot register it in the us if you are not us citizen or? Whats about Grenncard?

[hellosailor]

Jups, no one, even a US citizen, can federally register a boat in the United States. Here, "registration" refers to a State process and a boat can be registered as a motor vehicle or boat in most of the fifty States.

On a federal basis, a boat can be Documented with the USCG, but that is never referred to as "registration". Vessel documentation is reserved for citizens, as it is in most if not al countries of the world. That is among other things "flagging" your vessel with your native flag. For corporations, the rule here is that 51% of the corporation must be owned by a US citizen in order to document/flag a vessel in the US.

Green card? That makes you what, a resident alien? You'd have to check, but I dont think that allows you the full privileges of citizenship.

[Ram]

So just where is the most cost effective place to have your yacht registered outside the usa?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Ram

So just where is the most cost effective place to have your yacht registered outside the usa?

Mostly Yacht registration is only available to indviduals when Resident in a country - therefore the Yacht Reg Fees (whether $10pa or $whatever) becomes very much secondary to the costs of becoming a resident...........as this often (usually?) also involves becoming a tax resident of some sort. which tends to involve writing a cheque at some point as well as generating a bucket of paperwork that has to be paid for.

Of course registering via a company (which is the qualifying "resident" and not you) is a route around folk actually moving to a new country - but not without additional cost (and will vary on how done / who with / whether any personal tax advantages or disadvantages).

Despite the fact I hail from the land of the offshore company (and offshore corporate Yacht reg still popular) I would nonetheless suggest that the starting point should be your own country - unless you have (or find) a good reason to go elsewhere (onshore or offshore) whether that be a pure finanical reason or otherwise (i.e. privacy and / or estate planning / can't be bothered with the paperwork or the "boring" side of yacht management yourself and for which you are willing to bear any additional costs).

Really only starts to be cost effective Offshore in Jersey when the yacht owning company is just one part of a larger structure (ie you've got a squillion squid held amongst a number of companies (owning other toys / property / other assets / trading) whether or not topped off with a Trust.........ironically the Yacht Reg fees side of thing is competitive, it's the cost of providing the corporate side of things that is. errrr....horendously uncompetitive Keep meaning to try and create a product to address that one - but can't be bothered

[swagman]

And if I understnad it correctly, wherever flag you wish to fly under in the EU does not force you to pay your VAT there. And VAT rates do vary.
FWIW we had a pal build in Sweden.
Register in the UK.
Paid the VAT in Malta.
Cheers
JOHN

[Ram]

- a friends was asking me and I did not know what to tell him, so I pose this question to anyone who might know-!

a US documented boat never entered US waters- he’s planning on sailing to America, but he does not want to pay import and or use tax- So he wants to "sell" his boat before it arrives in the USA - it’s in a US corporate name now and would like to have it register it in some other country - what he’s looking for is the cheapest place to do this , for a non citizen of that country anyone know?

[SaucySailoress]

Now then - this is something I haven't really thought about before. So, our yacht is registered in Kuwait. Every year we go pay her insurance and get her 'MOT' done to keep the registration up to date for the Marina.

1 - When we leave, if we are on a circumnavigation for 5 years, do we still have to get the boat re-registered every year? Can this be done anywhere?

2 - We intend to keep the boat registered in Kuwait - mainly because we don't know where we want to live. Our biggest issue was whether we'd fly the British or German flag - but if the boat is registered in Kuwait does that mean we fly the Kuwaiti flag, regardless of our nationalities??

[hellosailor]

Ram, not to lose focus, but is your friend aware that his yacht, once foreign flagged, will require a cruising permit to enter the US and that's valid only for one year, with no assurance of it being re-issued after he removes the boat from US waters? And, that he will probably have to start a domestic corporation in whatever other country he flags the boat in?
And of course, cheapest is ignoring the cost of the ensign the boat flies. How he is received by the authorities in the US , how often he is boarded, etc. will vary with how the local patrols look upon the reputation of the flag. There are legal variations as well: For instance, after the treaty ending the War of 1812, British vessels are allowed to proceed up the Mississippi River before clearing customs. One never knows what odd quirks may accompany a flag of convenience.
"but if the boat is registered in Kuwait does that mean we fly the Kuwaiti flag, regardless of our nationalities?? " Precisely. You'll be seen as visiting Arabs.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Ram, not to lose focus, but is your friend aware that his yacht, once foreign flagged, will require a cruising permit to enter the US and that's valid only for one year, with no assurance of it being re-issued after he removes the boat from US waters?And, that he will probably have to start a domestic corporation in whatever other country he flags the boat in?And of course, "cheapest" is ignoring the cost of the ensign the boat flies. How he is received by the authorities in the US , how often he is boarded, etc. will vary with how the local patrols look upon the reputation of the flag. There are legal variations as well: For instance, after the treaty ending the War of 1812, British vessels are allowed to proceed up the Mississippi River before clearing customs. One never knows what odd quirks may accompany a flag of convenience.

Yes he is aware of the cruising permit, he says thats not an issue,hes not intrested in staying more than 1-2 years at most- as far as being boarded thats just about everyboat every other day in south E. Fl so that would not change anything- When I used to run dive charters out of Palm Beach I was stopped once a week, (10 years ago) pre 911-

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Ram

would like to have it register it in some other country - what he’s looking for is the cheapest place to do this , for a non citizen of that country anyone know?

I'd also be interested to hear if any country would register a yacht to a non-resident individual. (errrr. and I mean that in the sense that I would actually like to know ).

I guess your freind has become familiar with the US tax end (hence the question ) - would need to be sure that US authorities would not simply say anyyway that as the boat in the US owned by US citizen = boat imported = taxes to pay.......with the flag on her stern simply being irrelevant. Tax authorities can be funny buggers

Of course giving folks less to worry their pretty little heads about by looking as you claim can sometimes help . or hinder

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Aaza Dana

Now then - this is something I haven't really thought about before. So, our yacht is registered in Kuwait. Every year we go pay her insurance and get her 'MOT' done to keep the registration up to date for the Marina.

The boat flies the flag of the country it is registered in. Not the flag of the Owner (or Skipper's) passport (citizenship or residency). In the case you describe that would be the Kuwaiti Flag:-



What do you fly at the moment?

One thing I would want to make 110% sure of is whether your boat is actually registered with the Kuwaiti Register of Ships (whatever it is called in Kuwait) and would allow international travel.

Some countries (here in Jersey also) have a "registration" that is merely a local adminstrative matter (in England they don't have this same requirement) - and has nothing to do with the Registration (UK Blue Book / SSR) that allows foreign travel (by being the Registration that is internationally recognised by the country you arrive in!)...........wouldn't want to arrive somewhere with (to them) an un-registered vessel, especially in your neck of the woods

Easy to assume...........

[barnakiel]

It is not a common thing. But it is a practice, for various reasons.

Most of foreign-registered boats I have seen were (registered 'elsewhere') for tax evasion reasons. Gibraltar, Bahamas, BVI, Malta, Panama, Vanuatu, to name a few.

Sometimes also (practiced) when your own govt is a bunch of pricks and you do not want to spend your time registering the boat rather than sailing it.

In EU I have seen boats registered in Belgium. Investigate. Probably there is a good reason why people do it.

Registering a boat built in the Phillipines in any EU country entails importation and taxation. Natural and known before the building process started. Why else build outside EU? (unless she is a saipan)

I have my boat registered in the country where I bought her. See the passage on pricks.

b.

[hellosailor]

"Tax authorities can be funny buggers " In many small countries the authorities are willing to sell whatever anyone is willing to buy, and leave it at that. However...even with a domestic corporation and US citizens, the IRS and the various state tax authorities have been known to declare a corporation to be a sham and then to take states to prosecute tax fraud. For the corporate ownership of a boat, plane, car, in the US, the corporation must have some reason to exist beyond sheltering the owner's vessel, or else it can be declared a sham corporation. Then the vessel gets seized (aircraft too) the fines get levied back to Day One, and the owner gets the chance to go to tax court and try explaining why they should get it back. Good fun all around, if someone at some tax department asks "Why has that boat been here so long?" And if no one asks and no one tells...perhaps there is money to be saved. Perhaps.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

However...even with a domestic corporation and US citizens, the IRS and the various state tax authorities have been known to declare a corporation to be a sham and then to take states to prosecute tax fraud. For the corporate ownership of a boat, plane, car, in the US, the corporation must have some reason to exist beyond sheltering the owner's vessel, or else it can be declared a sham corporation. Then the vessel gets seized (aircraft too) the fines get levied back to Day One, and the owner gets the chance to go to tax court and try explaining why they should get it back. Good fun all around, if someone at some tax department asks "Why has that boat been here so long?" And if no one asks and no one tells...perhaps there is money to be saved. Perhaps.

As I said: "Tax authorities can be funny buggers"

But over this side of the world we haven't gone all Big Brother Socialist so don't live in fear of our Governments. Other countries are of course different .

Long live the Republic! Have a Banana