Things that work and things that don't...

What GORD has posted is a clear sumnation of all of the ideas that have been posted and discussed between the moderators and admins. As you can see from this, allot of thought has gone into the process.
Mark, if you look at these proposed guidelines, you will see it in no way benefits any advertiser, vendor, or manufacturer. The goals of this forum are in no way guided by the advertisers, but by the needs of the members.
Since this site changed ownership, one of the most common concerns expressed has been the relationship this site has with it's advertisers. I would like to dispell any rumors right now and say that Andy has not, at anytime, intervened in the directional control of this site to push us in a direction that would benefit the advertisers. In fact, that would be counter productive. The advertisers benefit by the growth of the site by reaching more potential customers. Catering to those advertisers by modifying the format, or content of this site would decrease the number of users, and therefore, the effectiveness of the ads. Keeping Cruisers Forum the best cruising site on the internet is goal number one for all of us, and as a result, will make it more profitable for our advertisers, and for the owners. Also realize, this is not a dictatorship. All of the Admin/Mod team is willing to listen to complaints, concerns, suggestions, or the very rare attaboy. That is not to say we will not make hard decisions that will make a few people unhappy, but that is the curse of leadership, and will always be done with the best interest of the forum and it's members in mind.

[delmarrey]

the Mod's/Admins are not receiving any funds at all for our efforts. These are strictly volunteer positions done for the benefit of the site. We were all asked by Andy and some turned it down.........................._/)

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by GordMay

* Employees of manufacturers (and their relatives) are not allowed to post reviews for their company's products or for competitors' products; but may respond to commentary (these will also be subject to editorial review)

As a suggestion please consider that any manufacturer or their representatives should only respond under the heading of the proposed new forum, not in general discussion. This will limit promotion attempts in threads that are not actually a product critique and help users better identify promotion posts.

[gegroves]

I totally agree with this new forum topic. If it had been available when I originally posted my Gori Prop Problem, half the comments from that thred would be moot.
I think the rules should also include a requirement for first hand experience postings as well as ownership of the product. Maybe this is implied in that rule, but someone could own the product and still post a comment overheard at the club.
Kudos to the Administrators for working this issue. We look forward to its opening on the Board.

Gary
S/Y Vingilot
Lying Marmaris/Turkey

Pura Vida, I understand that viewpoint, but consider this, if we have a question on how to troubleshoot a regulater issue with our windgenerater, and one of the whispergen guys chimes in and gives us some direction, I sure wouldn't object. I realize your main concern is to prevent corporate self promotion, and we all share in that goal, but I for one would welcome input from professionals in certain areas. We will just have to continue our already diligent efforts to prevent advertising.
Gary, Thanks. It is our goal to keep this site the best.

[Pura Vida]

Kai Nui, I'm hip. I respect the decision of the mods and admins on this topic. Certainily if we were getting useful techncal information along the lines of "diagnose this problem with this method" I would welcome it as part of the thread that initiated the question. Recently I've been advised in this way on this forum and appreciate the insight. The motive for my suggestion may be shackled to different, less technical, threads.
pv

[LaLeLu]

Sure seems like a lot of posts to decide what people can / cannot say. I got lost on what is now officially allowed and what is not. I think the rule is that it is ok to mention a product if you have a good comment, but not ok to give the name if you don't like the product? BTW, I really, really like the Stainless/starboard Edson o/b motor mount that we installed this weekend. It is very pretty and built well. (So, was that ok to say?)

[Alan Wheeler]

No...ummm....I mean yes, that is OK to say. No.....I mean yes you can say a product is not good or you don't like it or you have found a better alternative. That's not bad mouthing.
You simply can't say the product is useless if you have never used it. You can't say "don't ever deal with this company because they didn't send me a Xmass card"
It's just plain and simple politness and if you can't remember the rules, just go back and read them Gords rules and these wil be posted in a easy to see place.

[hellosailor]

Wheels-
{ You can't say "don't ever deal with this company because they didn't send me a Xmass card" }

Actually, that seems like a PERFECTLY proper posting to me. If someone said flat out that they didn't think anyone should deal with a company for such a trivial reason, that tells me exactly what perspective to put the comment in. And that perspective means more than something like "Don't buy Cola, it tastes like horrible!".

If you see the point: As long as we can tell where someone is coming from, both objective and subjective posts carry meaning. According to one internet source, 1/3 of the world is "Christian". So for 2/3 of the world's population, getting a Xmas card from a company could mean they were offensively presumptuous or even worse, proselytizing. Both arguably good reasons not to do business with them.

Not to get stuck on your example--I fully agree with keeping a "no shoes no shirt no service" policy and not letting this become another (ahem)Anarchy place. And I understand global libel rules may concern the owners. I just think that anyone who is old enough, tall enough, or unsupervised enough to REACH a computer, needs to deal with the fact that this is the internet, and we may all be, simply, dogs. (Referring to the famous New Yorker cartoon.<G>)

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by LaLeLu

Sure seems like a lot of posts to decide what people can / cannot say. I got lost on what is now officially allowed and what is not. I think the rule is that it is ok to mention a product if you have a good comment, but not ok to give the name if you don't like the product? BTW, I really, really like the Stainless/starboard Edson o/b motor mount that we installed this weekend. It is very pretty and built well. (So, was that ok to say?)

You’re exaggerating! Read again! There is nothing in the RULES stating one can not mention the product name if their dissatisfied. I just luv people who attempt or suggest to put out false info.

And by replying to the return registration e-mail everyone AGREED to the rules of this forum. .........._/)

Objectionable content

* Slander or libellous remarks or comments.
* Personal inflammatory remarks or comments.
* Hurtful or disparaging remarks or comments whether personal, racial or politically motivated will absolutely not be tolerated and deleted immediately without notice.
* Directly misleading information, remarks or comments.


Solicitation and advertising.

* Commercial interest intrusions (scams, spam, trolling and phishing).
* Posts in violation of Federal, State, Provincial or municipal statutes, laws or regulations.
* Shameless self promotion is permitted if it is relevant to the category or forum discussion and comes from the authoritative source. (Moderator & Admin. discretion reserved).

[MNDWGZ]

While looking for the temporary boat I searched high and low for info on all aspects of what my criteria and budget would get me... It's the World Wide Web; and you can find whatever you want to find in one form or another. The Result: I didn't get a boat with a Bravo III attached to the transom. Opinions are the cornerstone of free speach and after reading over 300 posts about bad sterndrives it was either Volvo, which were not available, or Alpha 1. The K.I.S.S. solution prevailed and the basic Alpha I suits the bill for what I wanted: make it go forward, reverse, left, right, and parts are cheap (props to play with and replace). No problem and I'll do my own service. If I have a question about my Chev trucks EFI, i can find it; Wifes rare VehiCros,; not a problem; old beemer; it's there for ME to take it or leave it. Forums should be informative in every way they can. Some forums even have suppliers areas, ...moderated of course. My 2 cents worth.

[Alan Wheeler]

I am not sure why this is so hard to get across. I was about to say, here is an example, but examples have already been given. So I think I'll keep it simple. As Gord has posted and Del has echoed, these here are the rules that we have decided we want the Board to follow. Simple. Comments about how poorly a product has worked for someone can be made and is welcomed. Comments that a manufacturer has not been very helpful can also be made and uis welcomed.
BUT!!! If anyone wants to bad mouth a product or manufacturer in a slanderouse way, do it someplace else. How much simpler can this be folks? Just follow the rules.

[svHyLyte]

Well this seems to be a lovely kettle of fish I've stirred up...

On the matter of customer service...I have generally found that people treat me about as well as I treat them. Not always, but usually.

For example, we own an old boat--a 1986 Beneteau First 42--pretty, but old. Consequently, some of the equipment is beginning to fail or show its age and needs parts replaced. Not always easy with nearly 20 year old parts.

For some time I had been wanting a replacement for the badly discoloured and fogged lense on one of the lights aboard the ship but had some difficulty tracking down a replacement. I finally reached a manufacturer's rep in Europe that referred me to their parts distributor in the US. Upon calling there, the sales rep advised me that a replacement lense was only about $7.00! Great! Send me one! But then, when she quoted the total amount of the sale, the proposed bill came to well over $35.00! What's this? I asked. Handling charges, and freight!. I thanked her for her effort and apologised for having wasted her time (it took her awhile to find the part in a dusty bin in the warehouse) but I explained I didn't think it made sense to spend 5x the cost of the part on the shipping and handling. She paused for a moment and then said--"You know what, you're right". So I thanked her again and started to ring off when she stopped me--"How long have you had that light?" she asked. "Well, I've only had the boat for a few months, but it's a 1986 model and I think the light's an original" I responded. "A few months? We'll, this is clearly a warrenty issue." And with that she took our name and address and proceded to send us the part with no charge at all! (After which I sent a thank you note to her, and a letter of commending her to the President of the manufacturer in Europe, who later thanks me himself.)

Frankly, I've had similar cost savng experiences many times with tradesmen and technicians--from a FrigoBoat Technician that told me how to repair the expansion plate in a unit that had been damaged by a child hoping to extract a frozen ice-pop with a steak knife (with epoxy and a tiny piece of glass cloth), to a mechanic that explained how to replace a part and then loaned us the tool we needed to do so rather than charging us a arm and a leg for the work. It just seems that if one treats others well, they respond in kind. They seem to "take possession" of your problem and look for a solution.

Just a thought--

s/v HyLyte

[hellosailor]

HyLyte-
""A few months? We'll, this is clearly a warrenty issue." " Obviously, she grasped the absurdity of the situation, and knew her hands would be tied if she didn't look beyond the usual conventions. Give ordinary people a chance (and an opening, because most of us aren't sharp enough or fast enough to grab one the way she did) and they'll often be heros.

But somehow in grade school, they've managed not to teach us how to do that. :-(

All the more reason that the folks who go the extra mile deserve credit for doing so! And kudos for following up with the letter to her superior.

[Geoff S.]

So...now that the bi-laws are all moved, seconded and passed...let the Reviewin' begin! I'm in the market for virtually everything, so I for one am going to be reading these comments with keen interest.

Is this thread essentially the Forum Topic in question, or will it materialize officially elsewhere?