Replacement Keel Bolts

[jkishel]

Benetau/Jeanneau keels are cast iron, not lead. The original keel bolts are cast iron and threaded into a threaded insert in the keel, not SS threaded rods cast into a lead keel. As long as you can get a socket on the bolt heads; their removal, inspection and replacement are straight forward. This can be done one at a time with the boat in the water. Call Benetau for replacement bolts, installation details, torque spec., etc.

However, as indicated above, some recently publicized Benetau keel failures have apparently been associated with hull fiberglass features in the vicinity of the keel, not the bolts themselves, with a suggestion that previous groundings may have been a factor. Check out the Cheek Rafiki thread elsewhere on this forum.

[Terra Nova]

The bolts in cast iron keels are steel, not cast iron.

And replace them with the boat hauled out.

[pippatheskippa]

Currently in touch with Beneteau Agents in Martinique and Jeanneau (Sea Ventures) in the UK - hopefully between them they will come up with the goods! Thanks for all the advice - we do intend to make sure that any repairs/replacements are completed to manufactures standard, and have a good team in our local boatyard who will assist with the replacement.

[donradcliffe]

I watched as the yard refurbished a Bene keel in Phuket. Some of the threaded holes in the cast iron keel were corroded, and those bolts would not tighten up. They dropped the keel and took it off in a truck to a machine shop where the holes were repaired and re-threaded. When the keel returned, they used threaded steel rod and nuts instead of bolts to re-secure it. The top of the keel was covered in epoxy putty and the bottom of thehull was covered with a release agent. The hull was lowered onto the keel and the epoxy faired while wet. When the epoxy was hard, they re-lifted the hull, spread 5200 in the joint, and tightened everything up. The result was quite a bit better than new.

[UNCIVILIZED]

The above is the/one of the proper ways to bed a keel. And most other methods of quality should be similar.
It gives you a perfect mating surface interface, with a small, flexible bond between the keel & the hull.

Keels can be bonded in place, & essentially glued onto the hull. And you get a much more fair joint. But it's also one which will need more looking after during haulouts, & especially if the boat grounds or hits something.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

I was under the impression that most bolts in cast iron keels had either molten lead, or epoxy poured into the threads, around the bolt. The purpose being, to remove any "wiggle" (AKA play) between the bolts, & the threads cut into the keel.
Is this not the case? Or are there a multiplicity of attaching bolts to cast iron keels?

The reason for this is quite simple. If you take a nut, & thread it onto a bolt, there's going to be a little bit of wiggle. Such is plain old fact.
And the bigger the nut, & the coarser/bigger the threads, then the more the wiggle. The wiggle being something which we definitely don't want in the system which holds a keel on. And bedding the bolts, as above, is an old, & proven way to get rid of it... At least until the bedding agent breaks down, with time, & millions of flexing cycles.

Yes, some of the "wiggle" can be removed by torqueing the bolts until they stretch enough so that the wiggle is removed. Such as in a car tire, on a wheel hub for example.

However, with heavy loads, & millions of cyclical loadings, it's not uncommon for some play to develop. For the bolts to stretch marginally. Or in the case of a boat, for the fiberglass keel sump/stub to compress a small bit.
And if any of the above happen so that there's enough wiggle room between the keel & the surface it mates to, then the wiggling can damage some of the supporting glass structure.

Just think about how flexing a piece of wire damages, & ultimately destroys it. The same thing can happen over time with a keel/keel stub. If, that is, it's; not engineered correctly, not built correctly, or not maintained correctly.
And some of the damage which may occur can happen @ a level which is too small to be visible to the eye until things are fully broken.

Just thought I'd clarify that, for those new to the topic. Especially as not all of it's the sort of thing which would come to mind, just as common sense kinds of things, unless you'd read about'em before.

[GulfportBarb]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Is there a problem with the keel bolts? These are not something that are usually replaced just as a matter of routine maintenance. Replacing keel bolts is usually complicated and expensive, and so it is only done when it really NEEDS to be done.

We are selling our 2006 Jeanneau SO 37 and the surveyor is recommending that the keel bolts be replaced because of the age of the boat (18 yrs). We have kept the visible keel bolts clean, dry and painted to retard corrosion. There is no visible sign of interior bolt corrosion. He said to do it since you can't tell what the condition of the bolts is inside the keel. Thoughts?

[Pandor]

If there isn’t any visible issue with the keel bolts, why would you replace before selling the boat? You won’t get your money back on that project.

Keel bolts aren’t like rigging where some people insist on regular replacement every decade. They should be inspected, of course. But replacement is only warranted based on the inspection. And if selling, that inspection should be on the new owner.

My boat has had bolts replaced twice. But both times was driven by the visible condition.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by GulfportBarb

We are selling our 2006 Jeanneau SO 37 and the surveyor is recommending that the keel bolts be replaced because of the age of the boat (18 yrs). We have kept the visible keel bolts clean, dry and painted to retard corrosion. There is no visible sign of interior bolt corrosion. He said to do it since you can't tell what the condition of the bolts is inside the keel. Thoughts?

Ask him what evidence he has found that warrants the not inconsiderable expenditure.

Is this the buyers surveyor btw, or is he working for you? If its the buyers surveyor, then politely refuse when he can't satisfactorily explain his recommendation.

Pete

[GulfportBarb]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Ask him what evidence he has found that warrants the not inconsiderable expenditure.

Is this the buyers surveyor btw, or is he working for you? If its the buyers surveyor, then politely refuse when he can't satisfactorily explain his recommendation.

Pete

Buyer's surveyor. We overheard him tell the buyer that you don't know the condition of the bolts unless you remove them.

[sandy stone]

Are these Beneteau-style keelbolts that can be removed from inside the boat, in the water? If so, and the buyer is serious, maybe you could offer to let him pay for removing one bolt for inspection.

[Pandor]

That is absolutely true. But same can be said about the chain plates. And what about the standing rigging? Is that also original?

I would flat out refuse any consideration of buyer’s request for preemptive replacement if the visible portion of the bolts are in satisfactory condition.

[Pandor]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

Are these Beneteau-style keelbolts that can be removed from inside the boat, in the water? If so, and the buyer is serious, maybe you could offer to let him pay for removing one bolt for inspection.

The issue with this is that there is a possibility when pulling a bolt in the water, you may get some keel weepage on a boat of this age. Then, no doubt, the seller will be on the hook to drop the entire keel and rebed.

[kenbo]

Removing keel bolts in the water does have risks like weeping and possible bolt breakage below the surface. However, even if all goes well it's impossible to get a true torque value on the bolt. to get a true torque value the keel should be fully supported on the hard. Gravity and keel weight should play no part in torquing down the bolts. But many do reinstall the bolts in the water so YMMV.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by jkishel

Benetau/Jeanneau keels are cast iron, not lead.

Check out the Cheek Rafiki thread elsewhere on this forum.

The standard Beneteau 40.7 keels, including Cheeky Rafiki, were made of lead. The keelbolts did not fail.

If you replace the keel bolts on a cast iron keel, you will need to check the threads in the keel for corrosion, and renew them if needed.

[Bowdrie]

I know the word "best" can be quite subjective, but decades ago Robert Smith had a "better way" of bolting on a fin keel to a fiberglass hull in his "Cascade" yachts.
Instead of using just a few giant bolts that thread into the cast iron on or near the centerline, the Cascade keels were cast with a wide flange on top that accepted a whole bunch of smaller bolts.
The loading was much better spread out thru the fiberglass structure and all of the bolts could be installed/removed/replaced with visual and mechanical access to both ends of the bolts.
Jeepers, what a concept,
Cascades have been running around the PNW for long time, I'm not aware of any that have developed any real issues that cause their owners the consternation/obsession over keel bolts that the modern "forward thinking" boats seem to engender