Repair Advice Needed

[IIOHAB]

Hey all I've stripped of all the old bottompaint on my 1978 Irwin 30 and am finding all kinds of surprises.

This is my first boat and I have no experiance with fiberglass, but hell a guy has to learn sometime. I am looking for ideas on how to fix what you see in the pic below.
The Keel joint is a big issue. I don't really want to pull it off so I am thinking about trying to put a jack under the keel to push it up and then tighten the bolts up
Any and all ideas are welcome please

[boatman61]

I would suggest you gently grind out the cracks to glass then fill and fair with epoxy and microballons... the keel... you could try jacking and tightening but looks to me more like the sealants dried n died... just fill with Sika if your bilges were dry... if the keel gap was that low you'd be taking water..

[ozskipper]

Cracks at the keel joint arent that unusual. Although that one near the leading edge is sizable and needs to be dried out completely, ground and filled of course.. The other cracks appear to be gelcoat cracks which can easily be gound out and filled.

Over the years, it may be an ongoing process for you. The pic on the top right shows, what appears to be, previous bog (pink) which has started to crack also.

cheers
Oz

[IIOHAB]

Thanks Guys! So you don't think that the keelbolts have not loosened, more likely the sealant used just got old etc...? What type of sealant would you use? Boatman you mentioned sikaflex but what type? In the 3rd pic there is an oily liquid slowly weeping out of the glass. I have wiped it off a few times but keeps comming back. Any ideas?

Oz there are a few spots with the pink filler. They all are cracking. Would you recommend sanding them all out and then fairing them with a fairing compound? What would cause the old filler to crack?

Also the fairing on the lead keel has a lot of "Blisters" or spots that are poping off. would you guys recomend stripping all of the old compound off or just the areas that seem to be loose?

A side note the boat has been on the hard since Oct so it has been drying or freezing ( Im in the frozen state of Minnesota) for a while. I hope to get her back in the water by the end of April.

Thanks for all the help. I like to do things right the first time and since this is my first full bottom job i'd like it to last a few years before I need to fix more.

[capngeo]

You have nothing unusual for a boat of that age. The keel joint looks normal, and I suspect the bolts are tight... squeeze a bit of 5200 in there and forget about it.

The "star" patterns are old impacts, and likely only involve the gelcoat... Dish out slightly with a grinder, lay-up a layer of mat, fair and barriercoat

The small dings are just gel coming off, possibly blisters opened by pressure washing... Just fill them with fairing compound and fair smooth

The other photos look like they might be osmotic blistering... Grind open the blisters let dry thoroughly lay-up and fair as required.

Barrier coat all bare glass and bottom paint!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by IIOHAB

Thanks Guys! So you don't think that the keelbolts have not loosened, more likely the sealant used just got old etc...? What type of sealant would you use? Boatman you mentioned sikaflex but what type? In the 3rd pic there is an oily liquid slowly weeping out of the glass. I have wiped it off a few times but keeps comming back. Any ideas?
Actually if you can get hold of some tar, melt it in a pot till its like putty and whack it in there.. does a better job I feel.. if you tape it of first you get a nace neat cheaper job.
That looks like a blister weeping to me... when you were sanding the hull were there 'rings',,, antifoul do-nuts appearing,,if so those would have been blisters in the gel coat that had risen proud.. if the boats ashore and subect to severe forst any blisters will freeze and could be the cause of your cracking

Oz there are a few spots with the pink filler. They all are cracking. Would you recommend sanding them all out and then fairing them with a fairing compound? What would cause the old filler to crack?
Freezing moisture in the gelcoat

Also the fairing on the lead keel has a lot of "Blisters" or spots that are poping off. would you guys recomend stripping all of the old compound off or just the areas that seem to be loose?
Blisters will need grinding back to the glass fibre and at least 1/2" past the outer rim then blast with fresh water for quite a while to rinse away as much of the traces away as possible... leave a coupla week or so to dry properly then fill with epoxy/microballon paste, wipe well with acetone first
If you want a long lasting job take it all off, prime and coat with VCtar or similar along with hull when finished and faired..

A side note the boat has been on the hard since Oct so it has been drying or freezing ( Im in the frozen state of Minnesota) for a while. I hope to get her back in the water by the end of April.

Thanks for all the help. I like to do things right the first time and since this is my first full bottom job i'd like it to last a few years before I need to fix more.

Sorry for diving in on all questions but figure more answers the better

[sabray]

agree some osmosis the gel looks porous needs barrier coats. just a guess the oil stuff is leaking near the sump. On that assumption the glass is thin here and bilge yuck is leaching through. that aint good. i could rattle off a bunch of suggestions but better would be to find some one you respect in the yard and get their hands on opinion. diesel battery acid and thin poor layups have bad results with polyester resin. sometimes those bilge sumps don't get the glass thickness or best glass work they should.
could just be a wet blister with water up in the laminate. many opinions about osmosis and blisters. my thought is that opinions very beause the experiene can be very different with every boat. it can be very bad as well as no biggy.

[barnakiel]

Jack under the keel???

So, the boat is not supported under the keel???

How is she supported then?

b.

[IIOHAB]

Thanks everyone.....

Sabray I do think it is bilge gunk... I do not think the previous owner ever cleaned the bilge the 20years he owned it. SO what would be a good solution for this? The glass in this sump area varyies in thikness greatly. when inside looking in the bilge some areas light from the outside shines through very bright, while others no light is able to penetrate the glass. Would it be worth the effort and time to add another layer of glass to the outside of the whole bilge sump area above the keel joint? the glass just seems thin and week.

barnakiel, the boat is on a crade and the keel is supported very well. I would take and drive some wood wedges between the keel and the plate it is resting on. Just increasing the size of the wedges untill the gap closed up. I am doubtfull that the gap will close up though. The rest of the keel joint is very tight with no seperation just the first 16" or so.

[barnakiel]

We used 3m 5200 twice and it was fine but we used some glass / epoxy over and overlapping the edge on the second case - it is still there and the crack did not come back.

I think the keel always moves about a bit and the cases of epoxy filler repairs I have seen all cracked. Hence the 3M way.

b.

[joey69]

Fiberglass blisters occur because water passes through the gelcoat. Water soluble chemicals inside the laminate exert an osmotic pull on water outside, and some water molecules find a way through the gelcoat. As more water is attracted into the enclosed space, internal pressure builds. The water molecules aren't squirted back out the way they came in because they have combined with the attracting chemicals into a solution with a larger molecular structure. Instead, the pressure pushes the covering gelcoat into a dome-a blister.

For the rest.

[perchance]

Originally Posted by IIOHAB

Thanks Guys! So you don't think that the keelbolts have not loosened, more likely the sealant used just got old etc...? What type of sealant would you use? Boatman you mentioned sikaflex but what type? In the 3rd pic there is an oily liquid slowly weeping out of the glass. I have wiped it off a few times but keeps comming back. Any ideas?

Oz there are a few spots with the pink filler. They all are cracking. Would you recommend sanding them all out and then fairing them with a fairing compound? What would cause the old filler to crack?

Also the fairing on the lead keel has a lot of "Blisters" or spots that are poping off. would you guys recomend stripping all of the old compound off or just the areas that seem to be loose?

A side note the boat has been on the hard since Oct so it has been drying or freezing ( Im in the frozen state of Minnesota) for a while. I hope to get her back in the water by the end of April.

Thanks for all the help. I like to do things right the first time and since this is my first full bottom job i'd like it to last a few years before I need to fix more.

Retorque them anyway. can't hurt.

[IIOHAB]

Thanks every one! One of the local yard guys suggested glassing in the keel joint. I am unsure if this is a good idea. This boat was not designed for it to be glassed so I am wondering if this is actually a good solution?

I am also wondering if adding another layer of glass to the area above the joint/exterior of the bilge? The glass in this area seems really thin and weak to me. When inside of the boat, looking at the bilge, there are several spots that light shines through very bright while other spots no light transfer at all. I am just concerned about the strength in this area. Or maybee I am just worried about nothing..... Thanks everyone

[CARL]

Quite often on boats built in this era, when the lead ballast was offered to the hull,or visa versa ,the builders would lay wet matting,to act like a gasket,this would take up discrepancys betwwen ballast and hull.If you have no movement on ballast ,with flexy grinder carefully grind away the old filler ,and if you can see the edge of the glass gasket, hope that makes sence,that too.try to get in half to three quater of inch then fill ,either sika or epoxy,if sika best to use a prima first.May be a good time to draw and check, an easy to get to bolt,for peice of mind.

[SabreKai]

Don't lay fiberglass over the keel/hull joint. It will only fracture as the keel moves relative to the hull. Right now the joint is compressed because the keel is sitting on something solid and the boat is sitting on the keel and just kept from tilting with the side supports. Once in the water, gravity takes over. Pop.

2nd thing, that pink stuff looks to be auto bondo. Bad. It absorbs water and then fractures in the winter when the absorbed water freezes. Get rid of it and fill with Epoxy/micro balloons.

First keel/hull joint I ever saw that I could see through. I'd pack that gap with something that won't absorb water and then fill the gap with 5200. The fill will keep you from shoving tube after tube into that cavern.


Sabre